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Old Jun 18, 2007, 11:44 AM   #31
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TCav wrote:

tjsnaps wrote: The DSLR's made today would not qualify as "Professional" cameras by the standards of 20 years ago because of the limitations of the modern DSLR viewfinder. ...

TCav replied:
I don't necessarily agree with that.

You don't have to agree… the standards I'm referring to were the standards set by the reviewers of the time and the manufacturers themselves and the working pro's that used them. So it's true weather you agree or not.


tjsnaps wrote: ... Ie. Not interchangeable. ...


TCav replied:
Actually, 20 years ago, only a handful of "Professional" SLRs had interchangeable viewfinders.

No….. Only a handful of SLR's had interchangeable viewfinders….The professional one.

tjsnaps wrote: ... (No waist level finders, ...


TCav replied:
I'll concede that point.

Thank you

tjsnaps wrote: ... action finders ...


TCav replied: These are available, albeit from third parties.

Cool that I have not seen

tjsnaps wrote: ... Many do not have interchangeable view screens ...


TCav replied:
Actually, most do, either from the manufacturers or from third parties. And since none of todays dSLRs have interchangeable viewfinders, swapping focusing screens is a daunting task, but the same could be said for many of the "Professional" SLRs 20 years ago.

I'll give you this I can't know everything about every model

tjsnaps wrote: ... and the screens are small screen with less than 100% view of the final image. ...


TCav replied:
Not so. Todays dSLRs have viewfinders that provide at least a 95% to 98% view of the final image, but the same was true of the "Professional" SLRs 20 years ago. And there are a number of dSLRs that have a 100% view.

95%to98% is not 100% the Nikon F, F2, F3, F4 etc. all had 100% as did the canon A1 I believe. Non pro models such as the Nikon FM had 98% , 95% was only found on the cheapest models

tjsnaps wrote: ... All of which can be made up for with LCD live viewing.

TCav replied:
Wait until you try manual focus using a 230,000 pixel LCD viewfinder.

I have…and your right it takes more time and effort

TCav replied:
Wait until you try adjusting the aperture for a particular depth of field using a 230,000 pixel LCD viewfinder.

A mute point until they put bigger censers in them

TCav replied:
Wait until you try burst shots with an LCD viewfinder. (You may not have noticed it, but your LCD viewfinder goes black when you take a shot, and takes a while to come back. A dSLR allows you to compose between shots as soon as the mirror returns. Most dSLRs allow you to take 3 shots per second, and some as much as five. The LCD display takes 2-3 seconds to refresh after each shot, so bursts are shot blind if at all.)

True but not relevant.. As I said not all photographers are sports or wild life photographers. You can't take burst shots on a 4X5 view camera either but you will find that these are still widely used by working pro's

TCav replied:
Just because you don't need to do these things doesn't mean other professionals (and even some amatures) don't.

Again true … but not all

Most pro's have different camera's for different needs. No one camera can do it all.

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Old Jun 18, 2007, 11:47 AM   #32
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JohnG wrote:
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one other thing to point out (because I haven't seen it brought up yet) with regards to LCD vs. Optical View Finder:

Unless you're using a tripod, composing by use of LCD vs. viewfinder is inherently less stable. It is much more stable to have the camera pressed up to your face.

On an ancillary point - think of panning with just LCD & how much more unstable that would be.

I beleive we'll get to a point where both will be offered on DSLRs (like both are offered on better digicams) but live view won't replace optical. Even if they can eliminate all the other negatives regarding live view - the stable platform for shooting would still not be addressed.
Many cameras have eyelevel ELV finers so that is not an issue and as the refresh rate improves it will be even better
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Old Jun 18, 2007, 12:27 PM   #33
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Sure they do, they are called rangefinders
Leica makes a very nice one
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...mera_Body.html

Also LiveView on the 1dMK-iii is slow, when you use it and want to take an image the camera must first close the mirror then reset the sensor and finally trip the shutter mechanism like any other normal DSLR. The featrue does allow for remote operation of a distant camera.

As for geting low to the ground these angle finders work just fine
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Finder_C.html

I've only been at it for about 4 decades and I don't really see a need for liveview in most cases. The remote operation capability is one where it can be usfull.



seerskater wrote:
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first off id like to say thanks for all these replies! as Hawgwild said, "A guy asks a question, and gets many answers, all of which are great responses."

ok, now i understand the LCD screen part, and i understand all the advantages that DSLR's have over p&s, but i agree with dwkreutz. Why does a camera have to be SLR to be able to change lenses, have better sensors, and more computer power? I though SLR only referred to a little mirror behind the lens. Why cant you get a non-compact camera that has all those features that isn't SLR?
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Old Jun 18, 2007, 12:28 PM   #34
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The pro bodies do provide 100% viewfinder coverage.

The prosumer and consumer models cut that own a bit to save on costs.
If you reduce the size of the view then all the components in the mirror box can be shrunk down a bit.
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Old Jun 18, 2007, 6:15 PM   #35
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dwkreutzer wrote:
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I wondered that same thing that seerskater does-- I think. I can understand the advantages of bigger sensors, interchangable lenses, better electronics, etc. But what's the point of the flipping mirror?

I know that there may be a lag with an lcd display, but there is going to be some shutter lag with the mirror mechanism. In some cases shutter lag may be preferable to viewing lag. But it seems that any mechanical feature is more expensive and prone to failure than an electronic feature (e.g., moving mirror vs. LCD screen).

Does anybody make a high-quality digital camera that accepts a full-line of interchangable lenses but doesn't bother with the mirror mechanism?

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses given to this question already.
Leica - bring $$$$$
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Old Jun 19, 2007, 9:11 AM   #36
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Hawgwild wrote:
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I meant that, the way technology seems to be progressing (exponentially), that I wouldn't be surprised to see some "affordable" aps sized sensors showing up in a camera like the S3 or H5, etc. with a decent optical viewfinder. The part I need help with ishow would they make the lenses small enough... or would they make the camera bigger? Or could that be why it hasn't been done yet?
If you are not already aware, the APS sensor in a digicam has already beendone as in theSonydiscontinued R1, but not combined with an optical viewfinder. Great camera but in some cases more expensive than a DSLR and very limited zoom range so I can see why they abandoned it especially after Sony entered the DSLR market. Unfortuantly, by using a large sensor it requires using a large lens to get a vast zoom range, and that is just not practical as fixed lens camera as it would have to be huge. Someday they might be able to do it when they come up with a different method of capturing the image on to a smaller device.
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Old Jun 19, 2007, 10:04 AM   #37
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This is what happens when you have too much time on your hands at work. :lol:



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