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Old Oct 5, 2007, 9:35 AM   #31
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NHL wrote:
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BTW in sport - you guys have the benefit of constant lighting (and players for one do not change jersey in the middle of a game) which nature photographer don't so the * button is quite critical...
True. BUT:

how often do you have a black bird and a white bird in the same photo? Sports shooters have to deal with that little issue.

I agree - the * button is critical - that's why I pointed out that Canon took a step in the right direction of including a dedicated forus button - so now shooters have both back button focus and exposure lock.

As far as your photos being single-shot. We've discussed this before. It's all a matter of DOF and and whether or not your subject is going to leave the focal plane. Both modes are available for a reason. Your style is such that you want to take a shot of a subject without tracking it first and while it's still within the same focal plane (in the majority of your BIF shots the bird is hovering or moving perpendicular). Some wildlife photogs prefer to track their subjects - as Eric stated. This includes shots of a bird flying toward the photog.

My point is: as with anything else it's important to understand how a tool works and to choose the right tool for the job. Each focus tool has situations where it works better than the other. With proper understanding of how they work the photographer can use the best tool for the job at hand. Shooting baseball is different than shooting football which is different than shooting small birds which is different than shooting raptors which is different than shooting bears, etc and so on. You can't take what works in one area and say this is what should be done in ALL areas.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 9:48 AM   #32
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JohnG wrote:
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NHL wrote:
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If it does - Isn't that what Rob Galbraith observed?
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...8740-9068-9093

-> Check the lens focusing ring jitters. Clearly one of the lens position is not correct - Agree? Specially when in AI-servo the shutter has priority over AF?
I can't explain it -but I just don't see the same problems RG sees. Obviously he's more experienced than I am, but there are other MkIII users that, like me, aren't seeing the problems he sees.
Well I don't have a MrkIII yet, but my MrkII do jitter on stationary object in AI-servo:
-> The lens focusing ring (EF 28-135 IS USM) I tried last night, varies between two different positions when pointing at a fixed object. Obviously one of theses position is not correct so depending on the DOF of the lens and how long it is the misfocus can be detect or not. A 400mm f/2.8 will probably show it the most for example...
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 10:03 AM   #33
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JohnG wrote:
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Your style is such that you want to take a shot of a subject without tracking it first and while it's still within the same focal plane (in the majority of your BIF shots the bird is hovering or moving perpendicular). Some wildlife photogs prefer to track their subjects - as Eric stated. This includes shots of a bird flying toward the photog.
Obviously you haven't seen all my images: :-)







-> I would love to use AI-servo... Problem is I lose the bird in tracking with AI-servo more than in single-shot AF!!!





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how often do you have a black bird and a white bird in the same photo? Sports shooters have to deal with that little issue.
-> We shoot against a super bright (or dark foliage in the shadow) sky all the time...
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 10:51 AM   #34
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-> We shoot against a super bright (or dark foliage in the shadow) sky all the time...
But your subject is only one or the other. My subject is BOTH. THATs what I'm talking about.

Again - I fail to see why you're so bent on this mission that single shot is the only way to go. Not sure why you feel the need to argue that you're right and those that use ai-servo are wrong. I've stated all along - both have their strengths and weaknesses. Single shot is great when an object will remain in a focal plane for the duration of your sequence. Servo is great when your tracking a subject moving through different focal planes.

Why is it you feel the need to try and argue that because Eric or I use servo we're fundamentally wrong? I just don't get that. For your style you have success with one-shot. That's great. But you seem to be on a mission to prove that servo can't work. You use one shot and your work is good. Eric uses servo and his work is very good. You both do BIF. So I can't agree with you that for BIF - servo won't work. Eric (and many other wildlife photogs) seem to be able to use it.

Now - it's tough for you and I to compare because I shoot sports and you shoot wildlife. So it's apples and oranges. I have yet to see a sports photog that successfully uses single shot over servo for field sports like soccer/football or sports like basketball/ swimming - where you have to track a moving subject. If you find one be sure to send them my way and he/she and I can compare.

On the wildlife side I don't shoot enough. But Eric does - so you two will have to debate one-shot vs. servo. But I've seen a lot of good results from other wildlife photogs for BIF and they use servo as well as single shot. So you're going to have a difficult time proving your case that servo mode is not up to the task. I'm not sure why you're bent on trying though?
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 2:22 PM   #35
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JohnG wrote:
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But your subject is only one or the other. My subject is BOTH. THATs what I'm talking about.
That's what I'm talkin about - It's one or the other but don't you have to lock the exposure of a small subject against the large backlighting expanse of a bright sky (or dark trees)? It's like me saying you have BOTH, but your lighting are 'controlled' especially indoor or night games, sure it does drop-off at the limit but the EV range are still bounded




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Why is it you feel the need to try and argue that because Eric or I use servo we're fundamentally wrong? I just don't get that.
I'm not that crazy... The majority of the populace out there use servo focus and for very good reason

This is what I wrote:
"Don't get me wrong, in many cases AI-servo work great. I tried and use both but have more success with single-shot AF when the targets are smaller. It's a lot easier to track visually this way (i.e. see through the lens). beside in single shot AF you also have a visual confirmation of AF-lock by the lighting up (or sound) of the AF point(s) aligning on your subject which you don't get in AI-servo... "

What I try to convey is:
-> If someone have difficulty in tracking bird in flight (and it happened to me all the time) - Do at least try single-shot AF it's just not for static object!

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