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Old May 30, 2008, 9:17 AM   #1
tma
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I "almost" understand all the info on this board. My question is: can someone simplify what I should need for

a) indoor sports, basketball, hocket, gymnastics, etc. low light, fast moving



b) indoor candid, birthdays, graduations, etc.



My number 1 goal is to be able to take quality action shots where no flash is allowed. the indoor party shots, flash wouldn't be a big deal.

Shutter spped? what number means what?

ISo what number means what

Apperatur??? same confusion...

I need to see if the shutter is set at "X", this will happen, and if I set the ISO at "Y" this will happen, and if you do"Z" this would help...



thnaks
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Old May 30, 2008, 9:26 AM   #2
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Read through my reply to you here:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...889209#p889209

Then, follow the link to the other post on how apertures work and you'll find more information on aperture, ISO speed and shutter speed.

You'll want a bright lens (f/2 or brighter is preferred) and higher ISO speeds (1600 or 3200, depending on lighting) for shots of moving people indoors.
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Old May 30, 2008, 9:59 AM   #3
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tHANKS...I TOOK SOME NOTES AND PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER SO WHEN I GO SHOPPING I GET WHAT I THINK I'LLNEED MOST.


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Old May 30, 2008, 10:16 AM   #4
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You have only 4 main variables to take into consideration for exposure. Once you have a better idea of how these 4 variables work together to give you a properly exposed image, the rest will make more sense.

1. Light (typically measured as EV for Exposure Value in Photography).

2. Aperture (which works similar to the pupils in your eyes, where you can open up the aperture iris wider to let in more light, or close it down to let in less light). If you let in more light with a wider aperture, you can expose the film or sensor faster. If you let in less light with a smaller opening, it takes longer to expose the film or sensor. Note that aperture is normally expressed as f/stop, which is a ratio between the focal length of the lens and the diameter of the aperture iris. So, smaller values represent a larger iris diameter (letting in more light)

3. ISO speed. This is how sensitive the film or sensor is to light and is the same thing as the older ASA rating for film. The higher the ISO speed, the faster you can expose it.

4. Shutter Speed (this is how long the camera's shutter stays open to expose the film or sensor).

IOW, it all boils down to how senstive the film or sensor is to light (which you control via the ISO or ASA speed of the film you use with film, or the ISO speed settings you use with digital), and how much light you need to let it see to "expose" the iimage (which you control via the aperture opening size and shutter speed).

In order to expose the image fast enough (faster shutter speeds) to prevent blur from movement in low light (and indoors is low light), you need to use higher ISO speeds (more sensitive) and wider apertures (to let in more light).

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Old May 30, 2008, 1:16 PM   #5
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If you want to take shots of indoor sports, you need one of the following:
  1. Flash. Usually out of the question.[/*]
  2. Longer shutter speeds. Usually results in motion blur due to subject movement.[/*]
  3. High ISO Setting. Usually results in noise.[/*]
  4. Large aperture lens, f/2.0 or better (smaller number.)
[/*]
You will not find a lens with a large enough aperture on a P&S or even on a zoom lens for a dSLR. So this is not the kind of thing you're likely to find at BB, CC, or WallyWorld. You'll need to go to a camera store for a 50mm f/1.8, 85mm f/1.8 or 100mm f/2.0. And since you don't seem to already have a dSLR, this will narrow down your selection of cameras as well as lenses.
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Old May 30, 2008, 1:21 PM   #6
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tma wrote:
Quote:
tHANKS...I TOOK SOME NOTES AND PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER SO WHEN I GO SHOPPING I GET WHAT I THINK I'LLNEED MOST.
Jim covered the ground well. I'd just add a couple of things.

With high ISO comes noise - the digital equivalent to grain in film. How much depends on the camera, and the best predictor I know of for how much noise will come with high ISO is the price of the camera. Also fast lenses (low f/number) cost more.

In short, to get the best low light perforance you will have to pay a high price. In particular, if you want to shoot gymnastics be prepared to pay well over US$1500 for a dSLR and a fast lens.
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Old Jun 6, 2008, 2:53 PM   #7
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Thanks timc and tcav.............that's exactly what I was looking for. a simple breakdown. I realize when I get my dslr I'll need to experiment and spend some more $ to get the results I need.

All the resarch has been fun and informitive.

thanks again!
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Old Jun 7, 2008, 12:56 PM   #8
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Keep in mind that not all kinds of lenses are available for all kinds of cameras. Canon has the best selection of large aperture lenses, followed closely by Nikon (except they won't autofocus on Nikon's entry level dSLRs, the D40, D40X and D60), then Pentax (which includes sensor shift image stabilization in the camera body that Canon and Nikon don't have). Sony and Olympus have the smallest selection and they are very expensive.

So I think the Pentax gives you what you want at the lowest price and the most features.
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Old Jun 7, 2008, 3:27 PM   #9
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Pentax only has two bright AF primes that would be useful for low light sports (the 50mm f/1.4 and 77mm f/1.8 limited). Their Autofocus system is also going to be slower compared to the current Canon, Nikon or Sony models from tests I've seen. In addition, the used market for Pentax Autofocus lenses is pretty thin (lots of manual focus choices, but very few Autofocus choices are available compared to the other major brands).

For indoor sports, I'd go with a different solution for a higher percentage of keepers.

If on a real tight budget, I'd look at a Canon EOS-30D (and note that http://www.bhphotovideo.com still has them in new condition for $799.95) and get an 85mm f/1.8 USM lens to go with it. Then, you'd have a faster frame rate and a better Autofocus System (at a price that's still going to come in under a Pentax K200D or K20D with a Pentax 77mm f/1.8 limited).

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Old Jun 7, 2008, 6:34 PM   #10
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Asside from the large aperture lenses available from third parties for most any dSLR, Pentax has:
  • 50mm f/1.4 for $199.00 (B&H) [/*]
  • 35mm f/2.0 for $299.95 (Adorama & B&H) [/*]
  • 43mm f/1.9 for $439.00 (Adorama) [/*]
  • 77mm f/1.8 for $669.00 (Adorama) [/*]
  • 31mm f/1.8 for $834.95 (Adorama)
Sony, on the other hand, has:
[/*]
  • 50mm f/1.4 for $349.99 (B&H) [/*]
  • 85mm f/1.4 for $1,299.99 (B&H) [/*]
  • 35mm f/1.4 for $1,399.99 (B&H)[/*]
While some of these lenses wouldn't focus fast enough for sports, the OPhas requirements for large aperture lensesbesides indoorsports.

BTW, the total for the five Pentax lenses is $2,441.90, while the total for the three Sony lenses is $3,049.97!

And while there is a much more robust market for Sony (Minolta) used lenses, used large aperture lenses for Sony dSLRs are just as hard to find as those for Pentax.

To be sure, while Canon and Nikon have even better selections of large aperture lenses, they do not offer an image stabilized solution like Pentax and Sony (and Olympus.) (To JohnG - ... which may or may not be useful for sports, but again, the OP has requirements for large aperture lensesbesides indoor sports, where IS could also be helpful.)
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