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Old Sep 29, 2003, 8:00 AM   #1
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Default 4m 5M, so what ?

Hi,

I've researching into buying my first pocket sized digi-camera, but like many others I have a question about resolution.

I've read through many posting on the topic of 'which resolution' but am still unsure.

So, Is there any pic quality advantage. (Detail/Colours etc) on using a 4/5M over a 3M , when applied to these conditions ?

1) If a picture is never to be printed, only viewed on a PC ?
2) Printing photos at 8"x6" or less ?
3) Viewing DVD slideshows on a TV ?

I appreciate CCD size and lens can make a difference, but when the same camera is released in 3 / 4 / 5M versions, they should be the same.

Hope somebody can help.

n.

PS. I'm currently considering:
Casio R40
Konica Revio KD-510z
Canon PowerShot A80

Are there any other obvious ones I should add to my shortlist ?
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Old Sep 29, 2003, 9:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: 4m 5M, so what ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessSteel
So, Is there any pic quality advantage. (Detail/Colours etc) on using a 4/5M over a 3M , when applied to these conditions ?
1) If a picture is never to be printed, only viewed on a PC ?
2) Printing photos at 8"x6" or less ?
3) Viewing DVD slideshows on a TV ?
I was very happy with my 3Mpixel Olympus C3020Z for "these conditions", at least (1) and (2), don't know about (3).

I wanted more pixels for big enlargements of just a bit of the frame. 5Mpixels gets close to 35mm SLR quality, and 3Mpixels doesn't. I was using approx 3600x2400 pixels from my 35mm negs using a filmscanner, and the Olympus scored by not suffering from dust, but on a really sharp shot, the scanner was better.

So don't forget you may want to crop your pictures.
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Old Sep 29, 2003, 3:38 PM   #3
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As far as the difference in resolution: at normal viewing/print sizes (up to around 8x10"), you are unlikely to notice any difference in detail. Of course, Pixels Per Inch needed for the highest quality photos is a matter of opinon/debate.

In fact, the lower resolution models can have their advantages, too.

Pixel Density in a CCD can sometimes impact noise (if everything else is equal -- including the manufacturer/technology used).

Cameras using the newer Sony 5 Megapixel 1/1.8" CCD tend to have more noise than Cameras using the Sony 4 Megapixel 1/1.8" CCD (Olympus C-5050z has more noise than C-4040z, Canon S50 seems to have more noise than Canon S40, Canon G5 has more noise than Canon G3).

Phil Askey (onwer/editor of dpreview.com) really pounded the G5 over it's higher noise and higher Chromatic Aberrations compared to the 4MP Canon G3 (see his conclusion section in the G5 review at http://www.dpreview.com)

In the 3 Megapixel Class Camera models, most of the new Subcompact Models seem to be using the Sony 1/2.7" CCD. They seem to have more noise than older models using the larger Sony 1/1.8" 3MP CCD.

If choosing between the 1/2.7" 3 Megapixel Models, and the 1/1.8" 4 Megapixel Models, I'd go with the 4MP models.

You may want to look at the Canon S400, too (it's more pocketable compared to the A80). Of course, the A80 should be a nicer camera (tilt out LCD, better flash range, etc.) for overall useability.

I guess it depends on how large your pockets are.

Personally, I wouldn't want a camera any bigger than my Konica KD-510z for pocket carry. It's about as large of a camera as I could hope to fit in tighter pants pockets (like some of my jeans).

I really love this little camera, and I see that it's on your "short list". I decided to get the extra 1MP with a camera using the 1/1.8" 5 Megapixel CCD.

You can see some photos from my Konica here:

http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z

P.S. - the Minolta DiMAGE G500 is the same camera (only the logo has changed). The Minolta is now available from many dealers in the U.S. (around $449 delivered), but the Konica KD-510z is not available in the U.S. (I bought a Japanese Model to get mine).

The Konica KD-510z looks like it will be shipped to Europe first (it's starting to show up in the UK price search engines), but the Minolta G500 is not shipping in Europe. It's not even listed on Minolta Europes Web Site yet.

So, Konica-Minolta apparently decided to ship one brand to Europe first (the Konica Revio KD-510z), and the other brand to the U.S. first (the Minolta DiMAGE G500).
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Old Sep 30, 2003, 5:01 AM   #4
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Thanks, for both very informative replies. Taking them into consideration, I think a 4M cam would be flexible enough to allow me to print larger if needs be.

I read up on CCD's, from a link on this forum, detailing how the size of the CCD is important, so I'll be looking out for the larger 1/1.8" CCD.

I've read your review of the Konica 510z, I like the sound of it a lot, but I'm going to wait a little to let the dust settle on all the new models due this autumn, then re-evaluate the options.

Another promising model is the Kodak EasyShare 6440 (4M) approx 250.


Thanks for the help.

n.
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Old Sep 30, 2003, 6:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Personally, I wouldn't want a camera any bigger than my Konica KD-510z for pocket carry. It's about as large of a camera as I could hope to fit in tighter pants pockets (like some of my jeans).

I really love this little camera, and I see that it's on your "short list". I decided to get the extra 1MP with a camera using the 1/1.8" 5 Megapixel CCD.
Hiya Jim,

I've got the older Konica KD-400Z and I find the fundemental flaw in the camera is the sliding lens cover. After a year of use, and the lack of a supplied camera case, the cover runners have attracted grit, consequently, it's very difficult to keep the lens out and ready to take a photo. I have to hold the cover open firmly in order to get any shot.

The lesson to be learnt is don't be a tightwad and buy a well-fitting case!

I read that Konica have been good with firmware updates for quite a few models. Any idea where I can find these, www.konicaphoto.co.uk is a bit scant on info.

For info...

Firmware upgrades for 510Z, 410Z and 400Z are available here:
https://camera.konica-lab.net/soft_verup/soft_verup.php
There are plenty of English guides in the forums here and on dpreview.
jamie
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Old Sep 30, 2003, 7:01 PM   #6
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As no one's mentioned the viewing on a TV bit, TV's are extremely low resolution compared to computer monitors, so even 1 mp images are fine for that purpose.
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Old Sep 30, 2003, 7:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_homer
Firmware upgrades for 510Z, 410Z and 400Z are available here:
https://camera.konica-lab.net/soft_verup/soft_verup.php
There are plenty of English guides in the forums here and on dpreview.
jamie
Well -- you're almost right. No firmware upgrades are out for the new KD-510z yet (only for the older models). I check this site frequently.

I refer KD-400z and KD-500z owners to this site often. Also Dave Enlund has an English Language page on how to perform the upgrade for the KD-500z at http://www.enlund.com/konica

He upgraded his KD-500z to 1.51a (and the newest version for this model is 1.55a now), but the links he provided are still good.

The KD-510z is just too new for upgrdes yet. But, maybe we'll get one soon (I would love to see an aperture priority mode -- so far, only full manual exposure is available in the KD-510z).

Konica also has a new KD-420z coming out soon (it's going to hit Europe first). I saw the specs for it recently on a European site, and some of the price search engines in Europe are already pricing this new model. The specs show that it will have an aperture priority mode.

P.S. -- Yes, I'm a tightwad (I haven't bought a case for my KD-510z. Actually, it's not that I'm too cheap to buy a case.

I just want to keep it ready to take a photo "on a moments notice", so I keep it in my front pants pocket with no case.

Hopefully, my lens cover will remain in good working condition for a long time to come. If feels very well built. Perhaps they've made some improvements in the design over time.
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 1:02 AM   #8
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Jim et al ~
Somewhere while researching the g500 I saw an available case - leather - for the Konica. Damned if I remember where. BUT I've got a never-used leather cell-phone case with measurements that look to be perfect. (My camera arrives Thursday ...) There are dozens if not hundreds of cell phone cases out there at every price - since your camera is there in your pocket, whip it out and see if something fits! Another nice feature of phone cases is the variety of clips, handles or whatever for holding onto them.

Even if the case grows your camera a bit beyond your pocket, it's great for packing, carrying in a coat pocket, briefcase, purse or whatever.

Alternatively, a woman I know recently found a little zipper case (padded, to boot) at the drugstore in the makeup section. About the size of a cigarette pack. And what about those cigarette "slip-case" style cases?

I think the best way to find the perfect, odd little case for our very small cameras is to look outside the camera department ... in fact, when I travel I do NOT stow valuable photo equipment in a "designated" camera bag - it's a target. I try to fit up a bag that doesn't holler "cameras inside". Tom
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 3:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPogo
As no one's mentioned the viewing on a TV bit, TV's are extremely low resolution compared to computer monitors, so even 1 mp images are fine for that purpose.
The original question talked about DVD slide shows on TV.

Do modern high definition big screen TVs/DVD players still use the old 625-line PAL (or US equivalent) standard, where 2megapixels is plenty, or is there something better available these days to get images on to a big TV screen?

I use "TVWriter" from www.satsignal.net to turn my jpegs into images suitable for PAL TV display via the camera's AV output. The software deals with naming conventions, resizing, file headers, etc., and will turn ANY jpeg into a file suitable to put back on the camera. The quality is, of course, rather poor, (and strikingly worse from my Casio QV-5700's PAL output than from my brother's outdated Olympus C-something).

I wonder whether there's a means of getting those files (in TVWriter's higher resolution modes) on to an HD TV from a home-written DVD-RW?
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 9:42 AM   #10
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Forget PAL/NTSC if you want quality on a new large screen plasma or lcd. You must start with JPEG, TIFF or BMP and output SVGA which most of these displays can handle as they come with a pc graphics card (unlike most T.V's). Most T'V's cannot scan fast enough and use horrible interlace scan and low res. tubes, so they just aren't the quality route. More recent flat panel 'digital' displays are likely to have a DVi or HDMI Interface, which unlike SVGA is all digits right up to the display driver chips.

If these are too expensive, some are re-thinking home setups and using PC's with large high res monitors fitted with DVd/PVR and TV tuner cards. Shame about no cheap 16X9 pc monitors though. But flat panel is where manufacturers are going for new products.

Whilst you're still waiting for movie content in an HD format to come along on media and at a price you can afford, you could already be looking at HD stills from your camera on an XGA panel! VOX
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