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Old Nov 14, 2003, 1:42 AM   #1
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Default Zoombrowser and Photoshop 5

As a new user, I'm totally confused by these programs that came with the camera. I can at least figure out some stuff on Zoombrowser, but when I actually managed to upload a couple pictures to Photoshop 5 (that I had originally uploaded via Zoombrowser) I noticed the quality considerably better. Why is that? What does Zoombrowser do to the photo on the way up?

I have no familiarity at all with these 'paint' programs and desparately need a book. I know there are help files with the program, but I think a book would really help me out. I normally am pretty good with software and can figure it out, but I gotta say, Photoshop 5 has me pulling my hair out. Any book recommendations?

Back to Zoombrowser, I noticed that in order to 'export' photos, I have to rename them. Otherwise it wants to send them all out as 'untitled' and I get messages asking me if I want to override the previous 'untitled' photo. So I went thru and spent a lot of time renaming the photos. All was well and I got them exported. Then, tonight, I tried doing the same thing with a new. I got them all renamed but when I try to export them, they are coming up with the 'untitled' thing again and not recognizing the new name? Ideas?

Gwen
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Old Nov 14, 2003, 2:21 AM   #2
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Ummm... Hehehe... But, what is a "Zoombrowser"? :roll:
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Old Nov 14, 2003, 9:45 AM   #3
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Just to be clear, are you saying that you download pictures with the built in canon software (zoombrowser comes with many, if not all, canon cameras) and then load it into PS5. When you view it in ZoomBrowser it looks ok, but it looks "considerably better" in PS5. Is that correct?

You aren't doing any manipulations, just looking at it, right?

If so, there are several possabilities. When you view the picture in each package, are they the same size on the screen? Is one "zoomed" in, and the other showing the entire picture? That will certainly effect the percieved quality of the shot.

Could you explain what it is that makes the PS5 view look better? That would help us get to the source of the difference.

I am with you on the confusing nature of PS. PhotoShop is a very complex package, of which I only know about... 5 or 6 things with much confidence. I have heard very good things about the book "Photoshop for Photographers". I've never read it, but I will probably get it.

How are you "export"ing the pictures from zoombrowser? Could you explain exactly what you are doing?

Here is my "workflow" (a name for the process of working over a picture.)
1) I take the pictures (obvious, but I'm being complete)
2) I take out the CF card and put it into the CF reader that came with my card (from SanDisk.)
3) Windows XP detects the CF card and asks me what to do. I tell it to download with zoombrowser.
4) I have zoombrowser set to create a new directory based on the date the pictures were taken, and to keep the same name as their number (i.e. the picture number given by the camera.)
5) I select all "new" pictures (so I don't double download) and tell it to download the pictures.
6) When it's done I some times view some of the pictures from within zoombrowser. This means selecting the folder with the pictures in it, looking at the thumbnails and double clicking on a few.
7) then I quit zoombrowser and run Photoshop (I have Element 2.0)
8 ) Usually I select a picture and work in this order:
crop, sharpen, levels and/or contrast adjustments
If that looks "good enough" then I call it a day and do "save for web" to save it and then move on to another picture. If it shows potential of being really good, I play more with it. Selecting parts and adjusing them, or bluring the background more. Stuff like that.

I hope that helps.

Eric
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Old Nov 14, 2003, 9:50 AM   #4
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I think eric got it. You're actually perceiving not the real resolution of the image in Zoombrowser (if I had bought the Canon A70 I think I wouldn't have asked the question :lol and Photoshop shows it better. I doubt that there's anything being changed to the photos when you transfer the images.
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Old Nov 14, 2003, 10:30 AM   #5
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No, unfortunately I don't mean that the same photo looks better in Photoshop after I've taken it from Zoom to PS. I dl'd some photos directly into Zoom. This was the first batch I had taken and I was just playing around. They came out quite nicely. I rotated them all so they'd be the right direction, cropped a few (all in Zoom) and then tried to send them to Shutterfly to print. I had to rename every single picture before I could get them to go out.

Then, a few days later, I decided to play with PS. Which is the LE version 5 I believe. I dl'd directly from the camera and send the photos straight into PS. When I connect the camera to the computer, I get a message asking where I want the photos to go. Instead of choosing Zoom, I chose PS. So off went the photos. Upon looking at the first photo, the image was remarkably different.

These particular photos were taken Halloween night. Most of them I took with a flash, so it looked like daylight. However, I had taken a few w/out flash and on those, there was much more clarity of detail. For instance, I took a photo of the front of the house. In Zoom, all you see are the colored lights around the window and a blacklit ghost in the living room window. In PS, you can see that there are bushes in front of the house and much more detail.

In another photo, of a tombstone in the front yard, there is also much more detail of bushes in the area and the like.

See what I mean?

So I sat down last night and was going to see if the same thing happened again with some photos of puppies I shot last night (with a flash). I didn't get that far because I came upon the glittery problem (see another post of mine) and sat and tried to figure that one out!

Then, when I tried to export those photos from Zoom so that I could email my sister (who wanted to see the puppies), I couldn't export them even when I had renamed them all. They just keep showing up as untitled.

I realize there are two problems here. So feel free to address whichever you may have knowledge about. (The real problem is that I don't know what I'd doing.)

Gwen
P.S. When I got the first set of printed photos back from Shutterfly, the photos are exactly as the images appeared in Zoom. At that point, I hadn't even played with PS yet, so didn't know about the extra detail, but it didn't show up in the photos. Altho I'm happy with the photos as they are, esp for a frist batch and having NO idea what I was doing. Everything was an experiment.
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Old Nov 14, 2003, 4:36 PM   #6
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Unfortunately, I know of no reason why directing it straight to PS would be any different than first copying it over to your hard disk with zoom. An advantage is that zoom will rotate portrate picture automatically, which is handy. I also like having my pictures automatically organized by date. So I've never tried going directly to PS.

If you are not comparing the same pictures it makes it a bit hard to comment on. I know that when zoom starts up, it shows the entire picture in the window. For landscape oriented pictures they are reduced about 70%. clearly that will hide details. If you take the same picture in PS and zoom in, you will certainly see more detail.

As to exporting form "zoom" I'm not sure I would recommend doing it that way. Unless you can email really large attachments, I would recommend using PS's save to web feature. PS Elements 2 has it, and I assume most modern full versions of PS have it as well. It will make it much easier to save pictures to a size that is much more appropriate to email.

Eric
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Old Nov 17, 2003, 3:40 PM   #7
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>>Unfortunately, I know of no reason why directing it straight to PS would be any different than first copying it over to your hard disk with zoom. An advantage is that zoom will rotate portrate picture automatically, which is handy. I also like having my pictures automatically organized by date. So I've never tried going directly to PS. <<

It auto rotates the photos? Really? How? I am thus far doing each photo individually. Oh, not true, I discovered this morning that I could select all the photos that needed to go in the same direction and do them all at once. But I have to select the photos and then tell the computer to do it.

>>If you are not comparing the same pictures it makes it a bit hard to comment on. I know that when zoom starts up, it shows the entire picture in the window. For landscape oriented pictures they are reduced about 70%. clearly that will hide details. If you take the same picture in PS and zoom in, you will certainly see more detail. <<

No, I *am* comparing the exact same photo - first in zoom and then directly loading the same photo from the camera a second time into PS. And it's not PS LE or whatever that is called. It's some 5.0 version that came with the camera. Another interesting thing I noticed over the weekend when I went back and viewed the same photos in quesion still on the camera, the added detail is there in the orig photo (still on the camera).


>>As to exporting form "zoom" I'm not sure I would recommend doing it that way. Unless you can email really large attachments, I would recommend using PS's save to web feature. PS Elements 2 has it, and I assume most modern full versions of PS have it as well. It will make it much easier to save pictures to a size that is much more appropriate to email. <<

I haven't been able to figure out how to export from PS yet. And I'm exporting them into a desktop folder as I don't have a website to export them to.
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Old Nov 17, 2003, 8:32 PM   #8
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My experience comes from a Canon 10D. Maybe this doesn't apply to your camera. The 10D marks the pictures taken in portrate mode, and when zoombrowser downloads them it detects the flag and it flips them rightside up, all automatically. The only times I've had to do this by hand is when I used my laptop, and copied the pictures over with explorer (i.e. didn't use zoombrowser to copy the files.)

Ok, good. You are comparing the same files. Just making sure. You'd be surprised at some of the things people will do.

I just had an idea. A Color space missmatch would do it, but I doubt you'd be changing that setting (and I don't believe you can do it by accident... it takes effort.) But it would explain your problem. If PS was in Adobe RGB, but you gave it an sRGB file that would change the brightness. If zoombrowser detected the color space setting and PS used whatever it was set to.... It's worth checking (PS Elements doesn't have color spaces, so I can't help you on how you check the setting.)

You can "export to web" without having a web page. Really all it does is automate the process of saving a jpg. It puts up a nice preview view of the picture and lets you adjust the jpg compress (and it shows you how large the picture will be.) I find it's very easy to convert a picture something fit for the web that way.

In the darker picture, the details might not be visible. Ok, it's a long shot, but all I can come up with.

Also, "export from PS" is an odd statement (to me.) If you choose "save as" under file, you can specify the format of the file and pick where you want to save it. What do you mean by "export from PS"?
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Old Nov 18, 2003, 5:16 AM   #9
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Default I noticed something DIFFERENT

I noticed that when downloading photos from my D30 that pics in ZoomBrowser were significantly sharper and contrasty than in PS7

Even at 100% in ZoomBrowser the edges were crisp, in PS7 then were really blurred...

I noticed that Windows Pic and Fax Viewers makes then look different too....
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Old Nov 18, 2003, 11:05 AM   #10
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I think there might be an understanding gap here. You seem to think there's something different about downloading from your camera to Zoombrowser or Photoshop. I think the download process comes to the same thing - the same files are copied from the camera card to your hard drive. There's no difference in the files.

They are not "in" PS or Zoombrowser. They are on your hard drive just like any other files. You can open them in Zoombrowser or PS (or any of a bunch of other programs, including the PhotoImpression software I got with my A70). Those applications open a file so you can look at it or manipulate it, and some provide the necessary drivers (software programs that allow communication between the camera and computer) to download the pictures from the camera.

I can't imagine that the software used to download image files affects the quality of the image (if so, don't use it). I download all my pics from my A70 using Zombrowser, and I view them with Zoombrowser (I like the slideshow and thumbnails), but I edit mostly in Photoshop.

As for exporting, you don't have to do anything like that to open them in another program like PS, just open the original file. Exporting allows you to change to another file format and a few other options that I would use Photoshop for anyway. And you end up renaming them because you can't have two files in the same folder with the same name, and the program won't overwrite the original unless you say it's OK (NEVER do this, always keep the original file if you're in this situation -- create another folder for manipulated files, or burn the originals to a CD so you can always go back to it if you have to).

As for how they look in each program, I think some other posts addressed this -- different settings, different size, stuff like that. Unless the difference is very big, then I'd have to have a look for myself to figure it out.

I hope this helps. It kind of sounds like you just need to understand computers a little better first (we're all trying to get a handle on Photoshop).

ir
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