Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > Newbie Help

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 24, 2003, 2:17 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 30
Default How long between pictures

With conventional camera where the time between pictures is virtually as soon as you can rewind and re-press the shuttle button. But with my Nikon 3100, I always have to wait till the 1st pic is being saved before I can take the next pic. And if recharging of flash is required (quite often), the wait could be 15-sec! Of course it's made worst when the battery becomes less fresh. Is that the case with most digital camera of similar price range? Thanks in advance.
tourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Nov 24, 2003, 3:17 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

Comparing apples with apples, a film camera with built in flash would probably still take the same time for the flash to charge. An external flash with say 4 AA batteries, should charge in about 7-10 seconds - depending on how close (flash power required) you are.

Most digitals on auto settings (That is getting focus and white balance), will take a couple of seconds (but then this is included in the flash re-charge time). You can shorten this time by using manual settings or 1/2 press the shutter to get focus lock. This will make shot acquisition faster for repeated shots UNTIL the camera's internal memory is full and you have to wait a longer time for the camera to be ready, after all the card writes.

Your options on compact cams are limited but, you can use a larger external flash if you have a hot shoe, get the camera closer (use less power between flashes), use the biggest re-chargeables (if AA NiMh) or increase camera sensitivity (ASA/ISO) - but more noise. VOX
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 4:25 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 30
Default

I am not complaining about the digital camera having to take some time to focus and shot. But rather after each shoting, it takes a relatively long time (assuming no flash is used) for the digital to get ready for the next shot unlike conventional film camera. Does having a larger CF card (mine a supposedly faster 256MB) has anything to do with that? I don't think it has anything to do with internal memory in my case because even after the very 1st shot, I still have to wait for it to write to CF.
Thanks
tourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 8:10 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

I wonder if some camera makes seem to get their firmware wrong. For instance, I just got a Minolta S414. They said its got a big 32 meg buffer and takes continuous shots at 1.6fps. But use it in single shot mode and you're waiting for the first write to finish before you can take the next shot. So it's not due to set up time for AF/WB. Perhaps your cam does the same.

So somebody tell me why in single shot mode at same resolution as multi-shot(even allowing for the AF and WB to set up), you're not able to use the camera until each card write is finished.

As far as cards are concerned, the card can only go as fast as your camera processor and buffer memory, so after a certain card speed, given there is a reasonable amount of compatibility, you waste money getting a faster card unless you're future proofing for the next camera. VOX
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 9:23 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,396
Default

In continous burst mode it is writing to the cameras buffer memory which is ram and is fairly fast, not your flash card. When the cameras buffer fills and needs to write out, the camera starts to go slow and in some manfacturers even stops until the write is complete.

In single shot mode it is writing to the flash card after each shot, so it is slowish.

Using faster flash cards can help, but only if the camera can also write at the faster speeds.
PeterP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 11:27 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

PeterP .......so why isn't the camera writing to its internal memory (as cache), then spooling out to the card so you can take another shot?

As I said, my camera can shoot the same res. in multi shot mode as in single shot. The only difference I'd expect is the time to do the AF and WB each time on each single shot since this is usually only done once in multi shot mode. But the length of time to finish writing out to a card in high quality modes is very much longer than the AF/WB setup time.

As an experiment, I tried the same thing in manual (no AF/WB setup) and the time in single shot was still the same to finish the card write cycle. So I concluded some of these memory and buffer management issues may not be so well thought out. If you are managing software resources for continuous shooting you have to do it right. But would you think about it in the same way for single shot mode? A simple assumption says 'most will shoot medium file size' so a few seconds wait will be OK and perhaps getting the preview screen up is more important than having the trigger button armed and ready - even with an optical finder! VOX
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 1:39 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
Posts: 4,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
PeterP .......so why isn't the camera writing to its internal memory (as cache), then spooling out to the card so you can take another shot?
Good question. The Minolta D7Hi and A1 will buffer individual shots. Many cameras work like your 414 and I donít understand why. The write time with a decent card is only 2 seconds on the 414 according to reviews and I would think the multi shot mode would be appropriate if you wanted to go faster, but some cameras make you wait longer even with a decent buffer. If you wanted to shoot TIFF with your 414 the wait would be excessive even though the buffer is large enough to hold a couple of TIFFS.

Even if the camera required a LCD lag it wouldnít be significant with an optical finder. I donít think there is always a viewfinder lag in cameras that write everything to the buffer.

I read that the 414 has a continuous focus mode. If you always shoot in that mode you can pre-focus and there is almost no delay. Continuous focus adjusts focus right up to shutter release so pre-focus is more practical for most shots. I find he continuous focus to be a great feature on the camera I have with it. Continuous focus uses more battery, but with 4 high capacity NiMH AAs you probably can do anything you want and not run the batteries out. And spares are cheap.

tourist: Look at the reviews at Imaging-Resource for the various cycle times. Steve usually covers it somewhat in the conclusions but Imaging-Resource has a chart for that in all the full reviews. Lag time has improved considerably with newer cameras.
slipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 2:35 PM   #8
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default Re: How long between pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourist
With conventional camera where the time between pictures is virtually as soon as you can rewind and re-press the shuttle button. But with my Nikon 3100, I always have to wait till the 1st pic is being saved before I can take the next pic. And if recharging of flash is required (quite often), the wait could be 15-sec! Of course it's made worst when the battery becomes less fresh. Is that the case with most digital camera of similar price range? Thanks in advance.
Flash recycle times can vary quite a bit between models. You may want to check out the Konica KD-510z (in the U.S., it's the Minolta DiMAGE G500). At closer ranges, it's flash recycle time is very fast.

If you want a small pocketable camera, I highly recommend the Konica Revio KD-510z (Minolta DiMAGE G500). It's a 5 Megapixel Pocketable Camera with a 39-117mm Equivalent Zoom Lens.

This model was released in Japan at the end of June as the Konica Revio KD-510z. I had one in my hands 2 weeks later (I specifically looked for a Japanese model, since I knew it would take a while before it hit the U.S.).

Konica-Minolta decided to release this camera under the Minolta logo as the DiMAGE G500 in the U.S. They are identical except for the logo and model number.

The Minolta DiMAGE G500 (a.k.a., Konica Revio KD-510z) is 94 x 56 x 30 mm (3.7 x 2.2 x 1.2 inches)

I carry mine with me everywhere in a pocket (usually in my pants pocket), but it will also fit fine in a shirt pocket, jacket pocket -- almost any pocket.

It's also better in low light than any camera I've owned to date (and it's my 7th Digital Camera).

See some comments on low light focus here from both myself, and forum poster Tom Crip, in a thread titled "Shocking, G500 outperforms the 7i"

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=6607017

It's got great metering, and the default photos look fantastic (without the need to mess with any of the settings). Here's a comment from someone that owned the F300, and needed a replacement camera. I suggested that he try the G500 instead.

"I did what you mentioned. I got the G500 for a couple of days, used it, and loved it. Compared to the F300, it's faster, the photos have a greater range of tones, it's sturdier and easier to use. I've even played with a few of the images with Photoshop Elements, and the enhanced version I create still is outmatched by the original.--which really surprised me. Thanks for the great information, and for leading me to the details on how to customize the menu options."

See the posts from user 1574kc in this thread at megapixel.net:

http://www.megapixel.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8536

BTW, I've had this camera since mid-July, and I've taken well over 100 photos (mostly with flash) on many occassions, and I've only "run out of juice" once with it (at a weekend long party, where I had taken close to 200 photos (with flash, mostly at night outside).

You can find Generic 850mAh Lithium Ion Batteries on Ebay for around $10.00 each, too (any battery for the Konica KD-310z, KD-400z, KD-410z, KD-500z, or KD-510z will work).

I love the photo quality. Also, see this thread, where I quoted forum poster Nyugen (who owns both the Canon S400, and the Konica KD-510z, which is identical to the Minolta DiMAGE G500, except for the logo). I also included links to his posts about the differences:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=5851793

Also, see this post from forum poster Adam (who has owned the Canon S400, Konica KD-400z, KD-500z, and new Minolta G500 (Konica KD-510z):

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=6277866

It's also fast. You can set continuous mode under the custom menu (and leave it turned on at all times -- I've never accidently taken more than one photo this way). With this setting, the camera will take one photo every 1.27 seconds until the memory cards are full, simply by holding down the shutter button. No buffers to fill up, no switching to a special burst mode, etc.

With flash indoors, I've clocked it at one photo every 2.1 seconds, simply by holding down the shutter button, INCLUDING FLASH RECYCLE TIME at closer ranges of 3 to 4 feet. This model "throttles" down the flash nicely at closer ranges (which also speeds up recycle times). I love it (but it drives my wife nuts, when I press and hold the shutter button, snapping off multiple flash photos from across the table at restaurants).

It's really a great flash design -- throttling down the flash nicely to prevent overexposure at arms length, with enough strength to get well exposed photos at 14-16 feet away at ISO 200 at full wide angle (MUCH better than most subcompact models). Note: at further distances, the flash can take as long as 4 or 5 seconds to recharge, but this is the exception, not the norm. At closer ranges, recharge time is MUCH faster.

It's also an Extremely well made camera -- there is nothing "flimsy" about it. Check one out at your local dealer.

I think it's got the best balance of physical size, user control of parameters used most often, flash range, speed of operation, and image quality out of any subcompact model -- with photos that can match or exceed much larger cameras.

You may also want to visit my Pbase.com Konica Album. You'll see posts from some users of this model, commenting on it in the forum (underneath the photos on the main album page). You'll also find links to my user review.

http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 4:06 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,396
Default

Something I'd like to know myself My camera has a 64meg buffer and it still freezes up writing to the CF in single shot mode.

I'd guess maybe bad programming, or bad hardware design?
In burst mode it also freezes up when the buffer becomes full and has to write out, it can't seem to do both take more pictures and write from the buffer to the CF at the same time.
Maybe the processors used in the point&shoots are too slow to manage all the tasks at the same time.

Quote:
.......so why isn't the camera writing to its internal memory (as cache), then spooling out to the card so you can take another shot?
PeterP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 24, 2003, 5:32 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

Slipe/PeterP ......thanks for sharing my curiosity. The reason I commented on the lcd 'off', was that the cpu should have less work to do and no other reason.

I found that a 45X Lexar card works much faster than a 20X, but I wouldn't say it justifies the extra cash for the card - and you're only getting the reduced wait through card writes, and not effective use of buffer memory where it should be. The 414 cost less than £200 in UK, so I can live with some downside for the image quality it can produce (at the expense of lots of battery power in the lcd!) VOX
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:33 AM.