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Old Mar 22, 2004, 9:42 PM   #11
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Completey agree with Lin's analysis if the idea is to do this as a PRO endevour.

If this is the case I'd favour the 8mp Canon eos 1d-MKII, or the 4mp Nikon D2H as well. Either would produce the image size desired, and there are not many cameras out there that can shoot at a high frame rate like 8fps
(I think the Canon can hit 8.5fps for 40 frames)


I may have misread/understood the original post, all I saw was they wanted to take pictures of fast moving dogs, make 8*10 to 11*14 prints, and at a cost of under 1000$.
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 12:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin Evans

......

The problem is two fold. First you need absolutely consistent autofocus and predictive autofocus. The prosumer models (Canon D200, 10D, D30, D60 - Nikon D100, etc.) simply don't have predictive autofocus. This means you take your chances after the first shot in a burst when the subject is moving toward or away from you. Second, you absolutely must have fast burst shoot capabilities. You can't trust a three frame burst to do the job.

....

Lin
I photograph racecars and other fast moving objects regularly, and my 10D in predictive autofocus is good enough for me. (klick here for some of my work)

Oh, what about budget? If somebody wants to spend about a thousand dollars for a camera, advising to buy camera gear of about then grand is a bit over the hill imho.
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 8:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Truthfully, if you're doing this professionally, you can't get what you need for that price range in a digital.
Hi Marc,

A couple points. First - read my quote above which I believe is fairly clear. What wasn't clear is whether the original poster's intent is for professional or amateur work.

Second - as I said in my post - there will be numerous people showing images which they have taken with "camera x, camera y" that indicate that they "can" get shots with their cameras, etc.

The shots you have posted are very nice, but this type photography can and is done with even the slowest autofocus and shutter lag models using panning and pre-focus techniques. If you would like links to excellent images taken with digicams like the Nikon CP990, etc., of auto races I will be glad to provide them.

Shooting autos on a track which have very predictable vectors and relatively constant speeds and shooting animals in motion, especially animals which start, stop, turn, jump, etc., is a very different issue indeed. The limited number of focusing points with the 10D are suitable for predicting moving objects such as autos which are moving toward or away at relatively constant speeds, but the limitations make shooting animals quite a different problem.

I'm not making light of the Canon EOS-10D, I actually love mine. But the Canon EOS-10D is not suitable for the type shooting that the original poster is contemplating.

I own and use the EOS-10D on a regular basis. I also have and use the EOS-D30, EOS-1D, EOS-1DS and Kodak DCS-760 along with many, many other digicams, pro-backs and film gear. It's my experience and that of numerous other professionals that the prosumer models which I mentioned in my list, and that includes the EOS-10D, are not suitable for consistent results for the type work the original poster wishes to do.

As for the comment about costs - I'm unsure where you picked up $10K, but I certainly didn't use that figure.

Please post links to your images of moving, jumping animals taken with the 10D and then we can discuss its suitability.

Best regards,

Lin
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 9:35 AM   #14
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Must be quoting Canadian $Loonies$ The 1d-MKii is listed for 5995$ here, add a couple of good lenses and strobes and 10K :shock: is not out of reach.

Quote:
As for the comment about costs - I'm unsure where you picked up $10K, but I certainly didn't use that figure.
I used to use completely manual equipment BA(before autofocus) and speeding cars and horses on a race track were not that difficult. You just set up your shot, prefocused, and blasted through a roll of film every 5 seconds. (Canon F1 with motordrive)
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 10:04 AM   #15
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Yep, that's definitely high. I think it's $4500 here in the states, but it's possible to pick up some good used equipment like the 1DS for around $3400 or even one of the older Kodak (Nikon) pro models for around $1800. One decent lens and a good flash with concentrator like the Better Beamer would add around $800-$1000 additional.

It's definitely possible to get great shots with a manual setup, especially auto's or even horse races - heck I get great shots like I said with even my Nikon CP990 which probably has the slowest autofocus and shutter lag of anthing around. Pre-focus, manual focus, etc., works great along with anticipation of position, etc.

I suspect the original poster is shooting dogs going over jumps or frisbee catching, etc., which is lots more difficult because of the uncertainty about when and how they will move. Trying to do that with manual equipment is much more problematic. Not that it can't be done - I shot sports for years with 35mm manual equipment, but would never go back. I had thousands of missed frames over the years which would have been great captures with my 1D.

Best regards,

Lin
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 12:05 PM   #16
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As a related side note, I'm reading Arthur Morris' book "Birds as art" and he talks about the features you should try to get in a camera body. Things like AI focus & mirror lock up. And I thought "hey, most of these are in my prosumer 10D"... but then I thought about how long ago that part of the book was written.

Of course, that doesn't mean that all AI focus is created equal (it isn't, as Lin is saying) but it used to be a much higher end features that has now trickled down to lower end bodies.

Eric
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 1:23 PM   #17
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A good thread with many interesting and informative post. It would appear the most important factor for Willyjeen was budget. He/she only has two post on the entire site of which this thread was the 1st and the 2nd states he/she decided to go for the Minolta Dimage A1 ($500 type fixed lens camera).

I guess they make a million different cameras because there are a million different uses and personal standards.

How I would like to own the EOS 1D MKll and better yet LOVE to be able to use the camera to its fullest potential...
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 4:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKchopper
How I would like to own the EOS 1D MKll and better yet LOVE to be able to use the camera to its fullest potential...
And that is the big reason I don't get one. I could buy one, if I really wanted to. And I am quite certain that certain types of pictures I take would benefit. Greatly.

But I still have so much to learn that the 10D can teach me, why spend the money? And I'm sure that I wouldn't use even 1/2 of the functionality that is in the 1D-Mark II. Maybe eventually, but certainly not now.

Eric
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Old Mar 23, 2004, 10:42 PM   #19
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Whoever owns the most toys when they die, WIN. :P

Those bodies are definitely overkill for most people, I guess that is one reason they get the Pro designation.
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