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Old Jul 22, 2004, 7:11 AM   #11
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What is the final goal of your pictures?

What size prints are you going to routinely print?

What level of editor (photoshop etc) do you consider yourself ?

Remember a great number of the Pros and serious amatures are using 6MP Canons, Nikons. The newest Olympus DSLR is only 5MP. 6MP is good enough for Sports Illustrated and even (gasp) National Geographic now.

Take a real look at the size of the final output and you will see that the gain in resolution is not as great as the MP rating gives you. You actually need to multiply by 4 in order to double the resolution.

Let me show in in another way:
8M - 3264 x 2448
6M - 3000 x 2000
5M - 2592 x 1944

4M - 2304x1728

So the difference between 8MP and 5MP is really only 700x500 (roughly) or a border 350 pixels x 250 pixels around the image. The difference between 4 and 5MP is 200x200 or a 100 pixel border around the picture.

I have an 8MP camera but I wanted it because I do a lot of post processing (cropping). I was happy with 4MP but when I cropped the pictures down on some of them I was running short of printable pixels (and had to settle for 5x7 prints). I also wanted RAW mode for its features. I narrowed my decision down to the Canon and Minolta. The Minolta ended up winning because of the extras that I could get (battery grip and IS).
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Using the batteries from your other camera is a good point. And I do like that infolithium system on the Sony (I've used a Sony Digital camera before).

But at 8MP you may find the memory sticks will not make it for you. Each picture in JPEG is going to take 3-4MB. Even Sony conceded this by having the 828 take CF cards.

The biggest things I have against the 828 are

1) Size ... Consideringmost of the bulk is in the lens andthelensperformance has been average at best. All the other 8MP cameras are showing better glass quality (except maybe the Nikon).

2) RAW format ... The use of a RAW format is nifty, encrypting and hiding the format is not so nifty. Making the camera take only 1 picture every 12 seconds when in RAW mode ... Sucks. If you want to use RAW you are pretty much limited to Photoshop CS (I think).
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Now with all that said.. All of the current "pro-sumer" 5-8MP cameras are really nice pieces of hardware. Whatever camera you get you will be happy with. Get something and shoot. The object is not who has the best camera... it's who has the most pictures on their hard drive





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Old Jul 22, 2004, 11:43 AM   #12
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The final goal of my pictures... The final goal of my pictures is to make me happy ultimately.

I don't really print off prints just yet. Mostly my stuff is netbound right now.

I don't understand what you mean by "what level editor" exactly. I use photoshop cs mainly. (I have pretty much all the most popular editors, I plan on learning other edtiors when I have more time).

I right now I am far from a professional, or an expert with any of these. I'm just a guy that likes to take pictures.

I also do a lot of cropping. A lot. Everything is usuable in my book. If I take photo, and it doesnt come out to my approval. It becomes something else when I'm bored. I'm busy with getting my stuff ready for a mass dump onto my web host. When I get them all online, I'll link to a few of em.

I agree with you that they're all nice cameras. And I'd be happy to have any of them. I plan on researching more brands. Personally, I didn't mind the lens on the f717 when I used it. And I believe the f828 has essentially the same lens.

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Old Jul 22, 2004, 1:22 PM   #13
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Getting happiness from pictures is a great goal (the best I can think of).

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If the finaldestination is web based and not much printing then you might be better off (eg have more fun) with a lower Megapixel camera with a friggin big lens. You will get more pixels on target this way than with the 5MP or 8MP camera. In fact if you are printing up to 8x10 you will probably still prefer the big lens over the big megapixel count. This is not idle talk I have a 4MP superzoom, a 5MP Compact camera and the 8MP Minolta A2. I bought the 4MP camera after the 5MP camera because I missed the zoom I used to have with my 1.3MP camera.
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Web based is 800x600 typically and really big web sized is 1280x1024 (I have a couple of web sites and people will actually complain if the pictures are bigger than that).

This means you are going to get A LOT of crop area even out of a 4MP camera. You can take the saved money and have enough left over to buy a trip to the Carribean and get some really great pictures. Because of the smaller focal plane the noise level on the 4MP is actually better (less noise) than on a 5MP camera. When I bought the Kodak the 717 was just out and instead of getting the 717 (which was $1000 at the time), I used the extra money to buy my first set of studio lighting.


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The reason I asked about the editing skills is that the more advanced the camera the more you need to do to post process the pictures and make them better. The pictures out of the A2, Canon Pro1 and828are good but with a little post processing are outstanding. The pictures out of my Kodak simple camera are great out of the camera (better looking than theunprocessed stuff from the 8MP cameras) but after post processing the 8MP camera stomps the simple camera. So you need to add this to your flow.

If you want to you can tweak the settings on the 5/8MP cameras to sort ofemulate the great look of the lower end camera (increasing sharpness and colors) but in doing so you lose the ability to improve the picture to an outstanding. Out of the box the super camera may be disappointing until you really use its features and one thing you don't want happening is somekid with a cheap camera getting better looking pictures than your super camera.Probably the ultimate in this is I have seen people that boughtCanon 10Ds when they first came out and then shoot in the auto mode. The 10D is an awful automatic camera butput it in one of theprofessional modes and it is superb.



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Old Jul 22, 2004, 3:44 PM   #14
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I was kinda in a hurry with that last post there.

Ultimately my goal here is:
I am currently enrolling in college for photography, and graphic design. I want to learn both film, and digital photography. I know chances are I'll have to get out and work for someone else when I get out of school, so I can start paying my loans back. I'm turning 25 now, and by the time I'm 35 my goal is to have a studio opened where I can do advertising design and such.

The nature photography is more so for me. If I come up with something good out of that aspect, then of course I am going to try to market it. I spent 10 or so years here learning to be an electrician. I say it that way cause if your not learning something new everyday, you're just not doing it right IMPO.

Recently I had surgery on my knee. And in my best interest. I need to find another career, if I want to push off having a complete knee replacement for as long as possible. So I decided photography, and computer design, which has been a hobby since high school sounded like an excellent choice. If you can't do something you like for a living, do something you love. :lol:

I just find there is so much beauty in the little things in life, that most people never slow down enough to notice. So I take photo's when I am off on one of my little escapades. My camera goes everywhere with me.

Well anyhoo. I'm rambling now.

I guess the long and the short of it is... You'll be seeing a lot more of me around here; and I am going to drive you crazy with questions probably. Don't worry I catch on quick :shock:
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