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Old Jul 31, 2004, 7:07 PM   #1
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Someone in one of these forums suggested that I use RAW mode. This is a great suggestion. When I first got my 512 CF I found myself clicking away taking way too many shots in portrait mode. However, I found that by shooting in RAW mode I have to think much more about my shots because you can only use RAW in Manual or P modes. RAW gives me the ability to change the camera settings in the computer and get the same results as if I had done them at the time of shoot.

I acidentally had the WB sett to Flash when I was shooting with ambient light. I was able to fix this with the Canon File viewer Utility. This program has the Digital Rebel settings like all the White Balance options, Exposure controls, etc. RAW definatel uses more space. I take a lot of shots so tha tif I don't like one I have others to choose from. Now I focus on making the first shot the only shot I need. RAW also gives me more details as to what the camera settings where during the shot, focal length, shutter speed, aperture, etc.

I think now I will get larger CF cards and shoot RAW unless I need to take a lot of shots. Does anyone know of bettr RAW edition tools?

I have not added the RAW shots yet but here are some samples of my shots.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=417633


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Old Aug 1, 2004, 9:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minutephotos.com
Does anyone know of bettr RAW edition tools?
This is actually two separate questions, although you might not know it.
1) There are several good RAW conversion utilities out there.
1a) Breezebrowser is very good, probably the best. but its kinda slow. But if quality really matters, I've seen it include some details that other converters were missing. They have a demo you can try.

1b) Capture One is also very good. It is also an editor, but if you really want a good editor, look elsewhere. Can it do the job? Yes. But photoshop, picture window, & Paint Shop Pro are all better and more flexable. Its workflow is different than basically anything else out there. Some love it, some hate it. They have a demo you can try.

1c) PhotoShop 7 has a plugin from Adobe that you can use to convert RAW images. PhotoShop CS (i.e. photoshop 8) comes with it built in. both are expensive (but PS 7 is cheaper now that PS CS is out.)

2) There are a variety of editor out there that are good. Several I mention above. Here is a list of some:
photoshop, picture window, Paint Shop Pro, irfanview, PhotoShop Element 2.0

I started with Elements and when I found PhotoShop CS discounted because I owned Elements, I got it.

Being able to delay white balance is great, isn't it?

Eric
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Old Aug 5, 2004, 3:37 PM   #3
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Man, I am finding the drawacks of RAW the more I use it. Great images, great control hard to manage. RAW adds a few extra steps and is not as compatiable. I did a bunch of shots and tried to connect my camera to my friends Mac to download and preview, but it couldn't read the RAW files. So I loaded the Canon software and tried to transfer from the Camera over USB, very slow compared to shooting .JGP. I downloaded the C1 software, but I think I will stick to doing it with the Canon Software and Photoshop CS. I use the Canon software to modify the RAW files, I then save the files as .tiff and do any cropping or additional edits with Photoshop.

I can't figure out how to make Photoshops RAW tools give me the Canon Rebel specific on camera settings like the Canon software. The Canon Software is identical to the physical camera settings just post. :-). The problem is slower process, larger files and less compatiablility / portability. The benifit is a lot more control over photos. I love changing the camera settings rather than Auto Contrast, Auto Color, manual settings and a bunch of other photoshop tricks. changing the Camera's exposure control to brighten a photo or it White balance to get color right seems so much more natural. I am also learning how to make the camera do what I want because with shooting RAW I am able to see what each setting does.

Whow, there is sooo much to learn about photography. I thought getting a digital camera would be easier than film but that does not seem to be the case :roll:.
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Old Aug 6, 2004, 9:32 AM   #4
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If you have CS, then I'd suggest you use their RAW converter. I find it's much better, giving you a lot of controls and better preview, than the Canon software. And I believe it uses the same conversion code as the Canon software (their software development kit.) So the results will be exactly the same.

I do agree, RAWs are much larger and therefor slower to transfer. Much slower. I use a free USB1 reader and I keep thinking I'm going to replace it. Speed of download rarely matters... but on those few occasions that it does I wish I had a better way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minutephotos.com
I can't figure out how to make Photoshops RAW tools give me the Canon Rebel specific on camera settings like the Canon software. The Canon Software is identical to the physical camera settings just post.
I get what you mean by the second part of this quote. But I don't understand the first. I believe you can do everything the canon software can do and more (along with getting a great preview of the picture) in PhotoShop CS. What, specifically, do you want? You don't have to use auto contrast. That is what levels and Curves are for (I have learned to love Curves.) Setting white balance during the conversion is definitely the way to go, fixing that in regular PS is much harder (unless you buy plugin tools that make it easy.) You can do that with the PS RAW converter, from picking the same names you'd set in the camera to a custom setting where you can pick whatever you want.

Digital Photography makes certain parts easier. You can see, via the LCD, when you blow the exposure and retake the picture on the spot. You can be freer with what pictures you take because you don't have to pay $$$ for developing and you can store more pictures (unless you regularly carry 10+ rolls of film.)

But unless you do your own darkroom work, digital photography makes post-production harder. Instead of paying someone to do it (and hope they get it right) you do it yourself and spend as much time as you want to get it right. That opens up a whole new realm that you didn't have to worry about before.

Eric
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Old Aug 6, 2004, 2:03 PM   #5
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Man 3484 posts. Are you one of the site founders or something? You certainly seem to know what you are talking about. So let me try to explain. When I open a RAW file in the Canon File Viewer Utility it defaults to Common Prossesing which only previes the file. In order for me to make changes to the file I have to click the down arrow next to Common Processing and select Canon Rebel 300. When I do this the ribbon bar changes to now have all the specific Canon Rebel Settings that are on the camera. So that now when I click on White Balance I see all the White Balance settings as I would on Camera. As well as all the other seetings like Exposure Control, etc. When I am in Photoshop CS it is as thyough I am using Common Processing. I don't see the specific camera controls as though I need to do something to make it recognize my RAW driver for the Canon Rebel 300D. I downloaded a RAW update from Adobe Website, but I still don't see how to configure it for specific camera. Help. I believe Photoshop CS is the way to do this but as configured it is not as advanced as the Canon File Viewer Utility. The Canon Utility feels as though I am controlling the camera settings specifically. I think export to EXIF-TIFF and then bring it into PhotoShop. This sucks if I need to make edits to the RAW parts of file again, like changing WB back and forth between Flash and Auto.

PS

Just baugt the Canon 50 1.8. Man that thing combined with RAW processing is incredible.:-)
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Old Aug 6, 2004, 10:38 PM   #6
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The 50mm f1.8 is a shockingly good lens for around $60. I've got it as well and when I need it, wow.

I've only been here about… a bit over a year. I just got a lot of help from the people here and so I'm returning the favor. That and I like to help people, its in my nature.

I just brought up PS CS and loaded up a RAW file to convert. This is what I get on the right side of the screen:
An OK button followed by a cancel button.

Two radio buttons one saying "basic" the other "Advanced. I set it to advanced, but that won't make much of a difference for this conversation.

Below that is a histogram with the red, blue & green channels displayed.

Below that is a pull down labeled Settings. It says "camera defaults" (and it's a drop down which lets me select "selected image", "Camera Defaults", "Previous Conversion" or "Custom". It switches to "custom" which it always switches to the instant you change something.) This makes little difference to this conversation, but I list it because I'm thorough that way.

Below that I can select the white balance (which you talk about the Canon utility doing.) It has the same settings that you can set in the camera: "As Shot", "Auto", "Daylight", "Cloudy", "Shade", "Tungsten", "Fluorescent", "Flash", "Custom". I believe those are exact the options you should get in camera (well, except for "As shot" which picks what the camera wrote into the file as what it would have used.) I assume the Canon converter has those as well.

Below that is a slider for Color Temperature. This overrides the pull down for white balance. If you alter it white balance automatically switches to custom.

Below that is tint, which is also effected by white balance. I've never had a need to touch that.
Then we enter a new section. This has Exposure, Shadows, Brightness, Contrast, Saturation.
Exposure is very nice. It uses the extra bits of data to pull a bit more or less exposure latitude out of the image. This can save a picture. If you hold alt while you move the slider the image goes black and marks any areas on the image that are blown out in the color that they are blown out in (red, blue, green, or a combination of them.)

Shadow darkens shadows in the image. I've never needed this, but maybe some do.
Brightness, contrast, & saturation do what you'd expect.
Below the image I get a drop down to magnify the image. Control-0 unzooms the image so it fits within the window. Control-alt-0 zooms to 100% in the middle of the image. Very hand... very fast.

The rest of the stuff down there really doesn't matter much for this discussion (neither does the zoom'ing info, but I thought I should mention the control-alt-0 hotkey, as I find it very handy.)

So exactly what can you chance in the Canon Converter that this can't do? What you've listed is exactly what I see in the converter. Maybe you like the Canon interface better. I can't argue either way… I like having it within PS. But I don't see anything there that I can't do within PS.

I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks starting tomorrow… so the reality is that I probably won't see your answer to answer you. But maybe someone else will read this and comment.

Eric
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Old Aug 7, 2004, 5:11 PM   #7
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O.K. so again you are correct. I think inititally theCanon File Viewer utility was laid out different and was easier to understand. You are correct, Photoshop CS has all the same settings they just look different. After studying the interface more and reading through your notes, I have figured most of it out. Photoshop is definately hands down better at this than the Canon Software. The Canon Software has this horrible thing where it applys the image settings. With Photoshop the changes are smooth and immediate with no distracting applying image transition phase during which time you can't see the picture. I will need to get a book on how to reada three color histogram. The Canon software only has a black and white histogram. O.K. so I will switch, need to learn Photoshop CS better. It is so advanced, I think I run from it sometimes. Still think RAW gives you more control, little harder but better.



Thanks for the help
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