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Old Jan 7, 2005, 9:59 PM   #21
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Wow! What a great shot! You did this without an external flash (using the method you described)? Mia
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Old Jan 7, 2005, 11:06 PM   #22
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Mia:

Just so you have a better understanding of the some of the posts, the last photo taken by berto used a 3.2 second exposure. So, he would have used a tripod (or had a steady platform for the camera). Otherwise, you'd have motion blur from camera shake.

Also, an external flash would not have helped anything for that shot (they don't reach that far). ;-)

When comparing non-DSLR models, I'd assume that you'll need to use a flashin typical indoor lighting for moving subjects. Otherwise, you can get motion blur from subject movement, or noise from higher ISO speeds.

You'll see the rated flash range in each model's specifications (with a range for the wide angle setting, and a range for the full zoom setting). Although the range can be increased by increasing ISO speed, in most cases, you'llwant to stay within the stated flash range.

Now, the G6 is much better in this area compared to most other non-DSLR models. This is because it's lens is twice as bright as most (the G6 lens has a maximum available aperture of f/2.0 at wide angle, and most models don't start out until f/2.8 ). F/2.0 is twice as bright as f/2.8. So, in a "pinch", you could probably get away without a flash with the G6 in well lit interiors (but not with most other non-DSLR models). But, you'll get much better results usinga flash (less motion blur and/or noise).

As far as shutter speeds, they are not criticalfor photos in lower lighting. For example, the photos that Kenny_Leong took at 1/200 second at ISO 400 while jumping, could have just as easily been taken at 1/8 second at ISO 50. This is because in very low light (for example, a dark room at night), the subject is not exposed long enough for proper exposure by ambient light with these types of settings.

So, the flash itself can freeze the action (since a typical flash burst is very short -- 1/1000 second or faster is typical). Since the subject is only properly exposed for the length of the flash burst, the flash freezes movement in low light conditions.

As others have pointed out, an external flash is very desirable for photos indoors. This can give much more even illumination by bouncing some of the light, and helps to reduce the potential for redeye.




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Old Jan 8, 2005, 9:03 AM   #23
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JimC wrote:
Quote:
Mia:
*snip*
As far as shutter speeds, they are not critical for photos in lower lighting. For example, the photos that Kenny_Leong took at 1/200 second at ISO 400 while jumping, could have just as easily been taken at 1/8 second at ISO 50. This is because in very low light (for example, a dark room at night), the subject is not exposed long enough for proper exposure by ambient light with these types of settings.
*snip*
yah...true..but wouldn't you get some movement effects from the jumping at 1/8th second from any ambient low light? I'll have to check this out for myself...maybe the ISO 50 isn't enough to pick up the light-which would be good.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 9:25 AM   #24
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Kenny_Leong wrote:
Quote:
JimC wrote:
Quote:
Mia:
*snip*
As far as shutter speeds, they are not critical for photos in lower lighting. For example, the photos that Kenny_Leong took at 1/200 second at ISO 400 while jumping, could have just as easily been taken at 1/8 second at ISO 50. This is because in very low light (for example, a dark room at night), the subject is not exposed long enough for proper exposure by ambient light with these types of settings.
*snip*
yah...true..but wouldn't you get some movement effects from the jumping at 1/8th second from any ambient low light? I'll have to check this out for myself...maybe the ISO 50 isn't enough to pick up the light-which would be good.
Right, in low light (as in your dark room at night example), there wouldn't be enough light to see any movement from ambient light exposure (you'd have a totally black photo without the flash).

Even when out at restaurants at night, I'll sometimes use ISO 100, with a shutter speed of 1/8 second, shooting at f/2.8 with flash, using a little pocket camera. It freezes the action fine that way in many dimly litrestarants(with the slower shutter speed helping to pick up some of the dim ceiling lighting - which is not quite bright enough to expose the moving subjects). Of course, your mileage may vary -- as lighting between restaurants can be very different.


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Old Jan 8, 2005, 9:38 AM   #25
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hey cool. Thanks for that kind explanation and advice Jim. I hadn't done too many action shot type photos in the dark before, so your advice will be extremely helpful..not just for fast movement shots in lowlight..but just normal shots.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 9:58 AM   #26
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Kenny_Leong wrote:
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hey cool. Thanks for that kind explanation and advice Jim. I hadn't done too many action shot type photos in the dark before, so your advice will be extremely helpful..not just for fast movement shots in lowlight..but just normal shots.
No problem. I vary shutter speed with flash a lot in order to get more ambient light exposure in a photo (being careful not to go too slow, depending on the ambient light).

I often use 1/8, 1/15, 1/30 second speeds with flash in lower lighting. Here is an example of a photowith people dancing in a local Restaurant here in Savannah (Mary's Seafood). It was taken at f/2.8, ISO 100, 1/15 second shutter speed with a little pocket camera (Konica KD-510z),with focus setto 2 meters. It's straight from thecamera except for downsizing. I take lots of them this way with no motion blurin surroundings with dim lighting (because the flash burst is short enough to freeze the action).

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Old Jan 8, 2005, 10:08 AM   #27
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That's definitely a good photo with those settings Jim. It's really neat how a good combination of settings like that can produce such a good picture. It's interesting too, because having all those parameters, like light level, flash speed, iso, shutter speed, aperture can get us to think about things more...more dimensions/degrees of freedom etc.
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Old Jan 8, 2005, 10:56 AM   #28
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There was actually achandelier (dimmed some) directly over the dance floor in the previous photo. Basically, I took a few test shots first, then decided to use 1/15 second in this lighting (best balance between flash and ambient lighting, while preventing motion blur in this particular restaurant).

Because the light wasn't as dimas it is in someof the restaurants we frequent, I used 1/15instead of 1/8 second (because of thechandeiler over the floor). Lookingthrough my album, I remembered that I took a photo of it (using 1/60 second, before adjusting my shutter speed for the rest of the night):


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Old Jan 8, 2005, 10:58 AM   #29
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Mia...I forgot to mention that the output from the flash that I used for the jumping photo was only a third of what the G6 can put out. It was possible to set the camera to three times more power. So both the powerful flash in the G6 and JimC's advice should be allow the G6 to do quite good indoor photos.
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 7:35 AM   #30
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I used the flash at the highest flash output level and then used JimC's advice for ISO 100 and slow shutter speed...

So with absolutely no lights turned on in my apartment in the dark and using these settings: manual mode (mode M), ISO 100, shutter time of 1/15 second, aperture F/4, and full power flash burst, hand-held (ie no tripod used).....I got this. The only thing I did to the picture was reduce the image size..no other edits. I can't believe the power in the G6 inbuilt flash...amazing.

Thanks for the great advice JimC! Your kind information is extremely helpful and very useful. I'll pass on this information to others in future. So thanks again.
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