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Old Aug 10, 2006, 11:27 PM   #11
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Actually, I find results with high ISO's to be much better with DSLR's than film. I never used ISO's above 400 because of the grain, and only used 400 when I had to. With noise reduction software, I've printed 8x10's shot at 1600 that I couldn't have dreamed capturing using film. Also, the ability to switch Iso's on the fly is extremely useful.
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Old Aug 11, 2006, 7:16 AM   #12
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ken6217 wrote:

I have two more questions. In shooting sports as you do, do I need to go to a higher ISO? Can't I just increase the lens speed?

Also, to take your quote: "I think the only edge film has over the current crop of non-full frame DSLRs is in dynamic range. Not sure how a full frame like the Canon 5d compares to film in dynamic range though."

Do you think that 5D compares better or worse in dynamic range than film?

Thanks- Ken


Two good questions.

1. I agree that increasing ISO is a last resort. I tend to shoot my sports wide open - so my lens is at 2.8 from the start (sorry 2.8 is as fast as a 300mm zoom lens gets as far as I know). I shoot that wide to keep a shallow DOF. But the other concern is still keeping an appropriate shutter speed. In my experience speeds of 1/320 will freeze general motion but things like hands and feet are still blurred. 1/500 is usually required to freeze normal humans running. Now, when you want to freeze something like a batter swinging - or a ball in flight then you need shutter speeds over 1/1000 - that's pretty demanding territory. And in low-light sports like HS football and gymnasium sports you can easily find yourself at ISO 1600 with a 2.8 lens and shutter speeds back down to 1/250 or 1/320. Even shooting with a 2.0 or 1.8 lens most photogs shooting basketball at the HS level are at ISO 800 or 1600.

2. I honestly don't know. As my main interest is in sports and not landscape or wedding photography, the full frame sensors don't appeal to me at this time. So I honestly haven't researched the dynamic range comparison between the 5d and film. Hopefully someone else here has - there are some very technical folks here and I'm sure at least one of them has researched it.

In general I'd say you got some good advice re: the D200 vs. 30D - on spec the D200 is the better camera but you need to consider the system you prefer. Start looking at the glass you'd need/want to buy and the directions both manufacturers are going in. DSLR life cycle is about 18-24 months and Canon and Nikon keep leap-frogging each other. Canon has been hinting at major innovations coming next year and if the Sony DSLRs are successful I'm sure that will push up releases from both Canon and Nikon. So, handle both cameras, look at equipment costs and look at where you want to be 5 years from now and which Manufacturer's market direction is more in line with your goals. The great news is they're both fabulous cameras. Like RJ said, digital has so many more advantages than film - high ISO, switch ISO on fly, histogram preview, RAW, 500-1000 shots on a single memory card.

Good luck in your decision!
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Old Aug 11, 2006, 7:41 AM   #13
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Digital v film is a never ending debate (until you switch to digital) :?.

Some interesting links by technical gurus who are also keen photographers.



Basic summary though, and my experience with my Canon 20D, that the D200 & 30D will generally give equal or better results (once you adapt to digital workflow) than 35mm film.

And not from my experience just hearsay...

Cameras like 5D, 1D, D2X will generally give equal or better results than 6x4.5 medium format.

The MF digital backs are encroaching on 5x4 territory.


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Old Aug 11, 2006, 7:30 PM   #14
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Thanks for all of the comments. The beginning of next week I will go into a couple of stores and try to make my decision. For some reason, I am nervous about the comments about above ISO400 on theD200. I may never shoot at or above that and given my lack of experience with digital, this is swaying me to the 30D. My heart is saying D200 and my head is saying 30D.

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Old Aug 12, 2006, 10:45 AM   #15
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Hello, I am new here and to Cameras. But I just bought a Cannon S3is. Now I love the still photos it takes, But I am having problems when taking action shots. I know nothing when it comes to digital cameras are taking pic. peirod. I was just reading somethings ya'll have wrote, and its like trying to understand spanish. can ya'll help me.

I bought this Camera because my son is in Gymnastics. I wanted something that could zoom in and reach him. also I like the Idear of video and taking pic at the sametime. But when I try to take action pic. If I set the Camera at ISO800 I get alot of Noise. Is there another way, setting , anything else that can help me take better pic with this camera. This camera was one of the best I could get for the money, and its right under a SLR. So I am sure that its me and not the Camera. can someone help me please.
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Old Aug 12, 2006, 3:21 PM   #16
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Start a new thread and we'll be glad to help you out. But I'll warn you, gymnastics is extremely tough - it pushes my DSLR to it's limits. So, the S3 isn't going to get you many keepers - as you mentioned the noise performance at ISO 800 isn't very good and even ISO 800 probably isn't getting you the shutter speeds you need. But, start a new thread and we'll do what we can to help you. It would also be helpful if you posted a photo and the exif information from that photo (shutter speed, ISO, aperture). This will help us determine whether the light in your gym is decent enough to get any shots.

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