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Old Sep 14, 2006, 9:38 AM   #1
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I recognize*this isn't some groundbreaking revelation, but darn, Nikon certainly takes their sweet time.*

*I was just looking at the newly introduced Pentax K10D, a camera body with built-in shake reduction, a dust removal system AND weather sealing, all at a consumer price. Even Canon has stepped up with its own dust removal system. And where is Nikon on the consumer front? It's latest innovation, more megapixels and additional in-camera processing. Whooeee!



Okay, the D80's high ISO's are looking like some of the cleanest yet for a camera coming in at about a grand, perhaps even giving reduced priced Fuji S3's a run for the money (though I'd guess performance-wise between the two, the gold badge goes to Nikon).

*Anyhow, though I have no desire to jump into Pentax, when I see that a company of fewer camera*sales can put out a weather-sealed, dust-removal enhanced product at half the price of the D200 when it was introduced (I read $899 US as the starting price for the Pentax), it make me think the only thing the folks at Nikon are quick is in becoming complacent.



A side note, I recently picked up a used D2H as a replacement for my D70. Last time my D70 had problems I was told by Nikon service the D70 is not a pro camera and shouldn't be used as such (as in outdoors in dusty/ dirty evironments). The D2H, picked up lightly used and in fantastic shape for about $1,285 US, has proven an amazing deal and to me, like a D70 packed into a pro-body. A great route to go if you want some of the higher-end build attributes and can live without the large megapixel files or the smoother higher-ISO of the D80 (or D2HS for that matter).



Sorry for the rant. It wasn't meant to discourage those salivating for the newest thing from Nikon. On the contrary, it was my own realization that it's perhaps okay to expect more from one of the world's finest camera makers.

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Old Sep 14, 2006, 2:50 PM   #2
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Nikon has been left in the dust!
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Old Sep 14, 2006, 3:52 PM   #3
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wk7leung wrote:
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Nikon has been left in the dust!
I got my first dust spot last week, only 7 days after purchasing my camera! grrr
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Old Sep 14, 2006, 4:49 PM   #4
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It's easy to clean the sensors

Check this out

http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning

I use a small spatula, pec pads with eclipse, scotch tape, my tripod and a good light.

Follow the instructions and the results are great

Steve
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Old Sep 14, 2006, 6:17 PM   #5
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Dust is a pain, but it is inevitable. Even with weather seals and dust elimination systems. And at $200 a pop (CDN) for the recommended professional cleaning, it's worth looking into DIY alternatives.* Even if it's just the Giotto Rocket.*My comments were more about effort and innovation and how some company's strive offer more at a consumer price than others. While I know Nikon is well-capable of making an excellent product, innovation seems something of a stumbling point-as is in the case with the D80, IMO, when compared with offerings just on, or soon* to hit the market, such as the Pentax model mentioned* above, or what Olympus has put together in their latest, the E-330 with the live view lcd and dust shake system.* I understand with the D80 Nikon is deliberately offering something less than the D200 to meet a certain price point.* But when I look at what others are offering at that same price point, I wonder why the grass isn't as green in Nikonland.* Whine, whine, whine. Sorry.Anyhow, I am digging my D2H.* Haven't had the chance to use it in the hockey arena yet, but I've been impressed with everything else to date - except maybe its LCD monitor.*As a result I am no longer so quick to discount these old pro-models out just because their resolution seems lacking by comparison to today's models. And they are better equipped at keeping dust out.*Cheers!twm*
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 3:54 PM   #6
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I dare say that Nikon does not have a solution acceptable to itself for sensor dust. Seeing that lots of newcomers to digital photography have already invested in products of other makes, Nikon engineers must have been working day and night to recover its share in the camera market as well as tomaintain its leading role in the field.

Nikon must have a solution but until then, I will be using the D70 or a second-hand of its outdated high-end like what twmangrove has been doing. He must have much fun with the D2H. In Hong Kong, that model in the 2nd hand market is around $1200 to 1400 US. Pretty new they appeared to be on the rack.

By the way, my D70, touch wood, is serving well for me.There is no reason to investin a top-of-the -line model when seeing that it is so vulnerable to contamination.I will live upwith the D70when black spots appear on the shots I took but would bevery upset if it so happened that the'top gun' I hadinvested in had the same problem from time to time.

twmangrovewas aptly right when he said: 'Please don't push us - we're Nikon'. They are proud of their past, but for the future, if they don't givea predictable roadmap,many of their die-hard followers will leave themone day for Canon, Olympus and Pentax or even Sony.

Having said all this, biddingfarewell to Nikon is really not an easy thing to do for mostNikon fans......as theyhavea big'family'to look after in their dehumifying cabinet. So, before any big improvement is seen beingmade in Nikon, the best way out is to have as much fun with the D70 as possible, live up with the blurry spots in the shots you took and have patience with thosewell delineated black ones that happen inmacrophotography when closing down of the aperture is much required.
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 6:52 PM   #7
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I, for one, don't consider dust to be such a problem. But, speaking of the K10, by looking at the D80 and comparing it to the K10, you cannot escape the feeling that you're being given the short end of the stick. I mean, for a considerable sum more (considering 100$ is 11% of the K10 price tag) you don't get a lot of features that the K10 kindly offers. In fact, the only 3 (out-standing) things that the D80 has over the K10 are ISO3200 option, better flash functionality and (perhaps) better autofocus capability. I won't mention the havey guns K10 brings to the table as they are know by the lot of us. To be honest, I think Pentax takes the cake for this round (10MP sub-100$ dSLRs) and all I can say is that I'm drooling all over it.
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 6:58 PM   #8
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wk7leung

I believe your overreacting, Dust isn't really a major issue with DSLR's. I have a D50 and have had it for 4 months, Am constantly changing lenses and often shooting in Horridly dusty conditions, And I haven't had to clean my sensor yet.

Ive taken over 13,000 pictures and Never have had dust be an issue. One time I got a hair stuck on the inside of the lens, but that was it.

Also cleaning it is not such a risky procedure that the experienced photographer (Most people on this board I would say) would even need to take it in to get professionally done.

So all in all, I think picture quality should stay the number 1 reason to get a camera, and not the little quirks like automatic dust removal.
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 9:04 PM   #9
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All Ya Gotta Do Is:

"TURN OFF THE CAMERA"

When You Change The Lens

I'm glad my D200 does not shake all of the dirt inside the camera every time I turn it on or off. All of that shaking is probably going to screw up the focus or CCDsooner or later in the cameras that have that on them. I think if you shake something enough something has to loosen up or break off.

Ronnie
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 11:32 PM   #10
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We abide by the manual's instruction (switching off) when changing lenses. Ronnie has a good point: it is about screwing things up in the sensor and the body with the shaking. Many people talk about that also. I hoped Nikon would have this in mind when installing the anti-dust facility in theirs.

On this, rjseeney alsohas a good point: the shaking to be controlled by the user, not the camera. That will minimize shaking.

Different people have differentfeelingabout'sensor dust'. Ronnie is right that it isnot at all a big issue compared to the realiability and functions that a camera can provide as well as the lenses and accessories that come along with it.
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