Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Nikon dSLR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 7, 2009, 12:03 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4
Default

deadshot wrote:



…Interestingly I have gone back to the first photo's I have recorded and it shows that over 300 shots have been taken . I know I played with the camera before actually taking a photo worth keeping but I doubt very much ifI would have fired off over 300. So I wonder how many test shots if any Nikon make on a body before sending it out. My one, I was told by the dealer was coming straight from Nikon. Mmmm makes you think doesn't it?...




[line]




(redacted from the original posting, with leading and trailing comments omitted…) Deadspot brought up a very interesting point. The shutter count is analogous to a car's odometer…you use the car's odometer to give an indication on how much it has been used. In the case of the shutter count, it would work the same way as the car's odometer would, and for more or less the same reasons: You want to see how well worn the camera is before you purchase it.
Nikon's position is that you can't use the shutter actuation stats as a definitive indication of how many times the shutter has been tripped, because the stats can be reset by the factory as part of maintenance, firmware updates, and parts replacement in the shutter.

This detail creates problems that are just as pertinent for the purchaser of a dSLR as for,say, the person buying a used car. In the U.S., it is a federal crime to roll back a car's odometer to make the car appear newer or less used then it actually is. Conceivably…Nikon could alter the shutter actuation count to make a shutter appear less used then it actually was—which would be unethical, to say the least (Actually…a good hack might be able to do the same thing, given enough tinkering and the right software.). The fact it could occur during a firmware update is kind of problematic…because nothing has been internally replaced in the shutter, yet the count could be reset. I'd like to see some law making it illegal to alter the shutter actuation count, even if the parts were replaced in the shutter. The only legal way to alter the count would be to replace the entire shutter. You could always explain that upon sale of the camera by showing the repair invoice, showing parts replacement. It boils down to honesty; it keeps the seller honest, and it allows the consumer to determine how long the camera's shutter might last, although I say that it's not foolproof. Other things can fail on the camera's circuit boards, causing it to fail long before the shutter fails.

I hadn't been aware that you could see the shutter actuation stats; until I bought the D60, I didn't even realize a camera could (or did) track them. Not every camera does; I tried looking for similar statistics with my point and shoot Canon Coolpix A560, and didn't find any. Nikon would be just as interested in the statistic as the consumer buying a new or used camera…say a photographer took out a 2-year extended warranty on the camera, then turned the camera in for warranty repairs. Nikon would want to know how many times the shutter had been fired to see if the shutter failed due to "excessive use." If the shutter life is supposed to be 100,000 cycles (a figure I read in the book "David Busch's Nikon D60 Guide to Digital SLR Photography," p. 269), you could reach that number in 2 years if you're shooting 135-136 pictures a day (Please note: I asked Nikon how many shutter cycles the D60 was supposed to be good for, and could not get an answer to that question. Therefore, I say nothing about the book's claim as to shutter life…except to take it with a grain of salt.). Overshoot that number that represents the shutter's useful life, and I would think Nikon would charge for the shutter repair and claim it's not a warranty repair, even if it's within the warranty period, for excessive wear and tear, the common disclaimer of warranties.

You could see some mischief creeping into this, if Nikon wanted to overstate the number of shutter actuations to claim abnormal wear and tear…and if a dishonest consumer wanted to understate the number of shutter actuations to make his camera appear newer then it actually is.


Just a thought…

Mark Murphy
(boston_photog)

boston_photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Jan 8, 2009, 4:18 AM   #2
Moderator
 
Nagasaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 897
Default

Checked this on my D80 and it's 1 higher than the frame number of the shot which is about what I'd expect.
Nagasaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 2009, 11:50 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
deadshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hertfordshire UK
Posts: 759
Default

I contacted Nikon early this week and asked approx how many test firings of the shutter.

I was told they would got back to me when they had the nescessary info.

If and when they come back to me I will post their reply.
deadshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2009, 8:47 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
deadshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hertfordshire UK
Posts: 759
Default

deadshot wrote:
Quote:
I contacted Nikon early this week and asked approx how many test firings of the shutter.

I was told they would got back to me when they had the nescessary info.

If and when they come back to me I will post their reply.
Well Nikon finally got back to me but would not give me a definate figure regarding test shots but did say that 200+ firings seemed excessive. Also they stated thatit appeared that I had probably been sold a demo model. I also asked "approximately how many shots their shutters were good for", they would not comment on this but mentioned their shutters were covered by their warranty. So where other people get their info from I dont know, as I have read 150,000 and 100,000.I can understand Nikon not wanting to be definative on these questions but they dont even want to be approximate.
deadshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2009, 3:33 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
rjseeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky
Posts: 2,398
Default

I'm pretty sure Nikon will only give expected shutter life ratings on their pro-level cameras, like the D300, D3, D3x and D700. I've never seen anything official on consumer level bodies, though I've heard plenty of estimates. Most persons using a consumer level body, will likely never approach the limits of wearing out the shutter. With my various cameras, I typically shoot around 100-200 clicks a week and I've only had one shutter failure and that was a long time ago on a Minolta 400xi, and it failed while under warranty.
rjseeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2009, 11:28 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 567
Default

I don't know about others in the D-series, but I just received my D90 and noticed that the shot numbers reset after I took the memory card out for uploading. When I checked the manual, this function was set to restart the numbering after removing the card. I went into the menu and changed the numbering to sequential. Boston has a good point regarding a used camera but Nikon allows forshot numberreset.
paniolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 5:01 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
musket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,782
Default

Check outShutterlife
musket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 7:17 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
rjseeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky
Posts: 2,398
Default

paniolo wrote:
Quote:
I don't know about others in the D-series, but I just received my D90 and noticed that the shot numbers reset after I took the memory card out for uploading. When I checked the manual, this function was set to restart the numbering after removing the card. I went into the menu and changed the numbering to sequential. Boston has a good point regarding a used camera but Nikon allows forshot numberreset.
Your are correct in saying the file numbering can be set to reset. However, the camera keeps the number of shutter fires internally and embeds it in each image. It can be read using an exif viewer like Opanda. You can check this info and get the actual number of clicks regardless of how you have the numbering set. The file numbering is kept independently from the internal number and therefore can be different. I have heard the number of clicks can be reset somehow by messing around internally with the firmware, but I don't know whether that is true or not.
rjseeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 9:18 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
deadshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hertfordshire UK
Posts: 759
Default

Nikon told me that they sometimes reset the shutter firings back to zero when servicing, if required by the type of work involved. My camera has been back to them twice without any resetting. They definately meant shutter firings as opposed to shots taken.

The shutter life link is interesting, it appears to show that the more expensive bodies have a better average.(To be expected).Also it looks as though the entry level Canon DSLRs seem to have a better average than the Nikons.

I haven't done it but it wouldn't take too long to work out what the average shutter life would be, between similar bodies and manufacturers. A manufacturer versus manufacturer shutter life contest.

Although at 1500 shots per annum,I doubt that I will ever have a camera long enough to wear the shutter out, although RJ could wear a few entry levels out fairly quickly.

deadshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 10:19 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
rjseeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky
Posts: 2,398
Default

Quote:
although RJ could wear a few entry levels out fairly quickly.
I doubt it...200 clicks/week is only a little over 10,000 shots a year. If you can expect 100k fires on an entry level camera, that's about 10 years before your shutter will fail...most will replace the camera much sooner than that.
rjseeney is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:29 AM.