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Old May 22, 2012, 8:39 PM   #1
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Default Nikon should NOT be selling camera's they can't produce

I HATE Nikon's practice of putting a camera on the market when they aren't ready! I know of several that have been waiting for their D800 for over 6 weeks now. I absolutely won't by a new Nikon for that reason for at least 6-12 months for that reason and time for them to work out the bugs (firmware).

NOW is the time to buy the former greats, D700, D3 as those folks are needing $$$ for the new stuff. Which I just did yesterday. Got a great deal on a low shutter count, like new D3.
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Old May 23, 2012, 8:44 AM   #2
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NOW is the time to buy the former greats, D700, D3
I totally second that, good remark!!!
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Old May 23, 2012, 10:47 AM   #3
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Well... I think the demand was higher than anticipated. Plus the Thailand Floods caused a lot of problems in the Industry.

IOW, Nikon isn't the only one that had problems meeting demand. The same thing applied to a lot of other products (including some Digital Cameras from some of the other manufacturers), as manufacturers had to try and move building of some products and components elsewhere to try and restart manufacturing of them in other facilities, because a lot of parts (not just cameras) were being made in Thailand.

One good example of how the flooding impacted other products was the Hard Drive shortages we saw, because a lot of the critical parts used were made in Thailand (plus Western Digital and Seagate had plants there).

So, even manufacturers that built them elsewhere had problems with things like procurement of the Stepping Motors used in them (because most of them were manufactured in Thailand and the plants that made them were underwater).

As a result, many retailers sold out of popular hard drive models, and the vendors that still had them were selling them at ridiculous prices.

Hard Drive supply is about back to normal again now. But, it took a number of months for the industry to recover.
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Old May 23, 2012, 10:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Well... I think the demand was higher than anticipated. Plus the Thailand Floods caused a lot of problems in the Industry.

IOW, Nikon isn't the only one that had problems meeting demand. The same thing applied to a lot of other products (including Digital Camera from some of the other manufacturers).

One good example of how the flooding impacted other products was the Hard Drive shortages we saw, because a lot of the critical parts used were made in Thailand.

So, even manufacturers that built them elsewhere had problems with things like procurement of the Stepping Motors used in them (because most of them were manufactured in Thailand and the plants that made them were underwater).

As a result, many retailers sold out of popular hard drive models, and the vendors that still had them were selling them at ridiculous prices.

Hard Drive supply is back to normal again now. But, it took months for the industry to recover.
You may be right on some counts, but how about the other ones like the D7000 and older models when they came out, there was a waiting period then too. Nikon tends to release new camera before they have enough in stock. It's almost like their testing the market to see how many they may need to make, or trying to get some front money before mass producing or something along those lines.

IF it is like your saying Jim, then Nikon should NOT have announced the new models until they knew they could produce them in a timely manner.
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Last edited by jack55; May 23, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
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Old May 23, 2012, 11:06 AM   #5
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Thom Hogan has some very good commentary on the on the subject titled "Balance Points" from March 26, 2012. You'll find it if you scroll down on this page (for now, but he tends to move the articles to the archive section periodically).

http://www.bythom.com/2012%20Nikon%20News.htm

He makes some very good points. For example, how many months would you be willing to wait in order to guarantee you could get a new model on the day it's announced? IOW, would you want to wait another 6 months for them to produce enough cameras if the initial demand is that high (and judging what the demand for a product will be before it's shipping can be difficult).

He also goes into some of the internal logistics involved in production runs over a product's lifecycle, along with how manufacturers have to weigh the result of a larger first run in case any issues are discovered that did not turn up in their testing of the product (because a product as complex as a higher end digital camera may have issues that don't turn up until it gets into the hands of thousands), and require changes in the production line to correct for any problems found.

Remember the D5000 power switch issues, where they ended up recalling a lot of them? Can you imagine what that would have cost Nikon if they had made a 12 months demand run of them in advance?

He also goes into the differences in building a plant for a mass market item with a short life cycle, versus a niche market item (like a Nikon Pro level camera model that has a much longer life cycle), and why it's not practical to build a larger manufacturing capacity for that type of product.

Thom's a smart guy, and he thinks that Nikon has struck a good balance in how they're approaching the manufacturing of the D800 and D4. Of course, you're still going to have buyers upset that they can't get their hands on one easily without a wait. ;-)
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Old May 23, 2012, 2:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack55 View Post
It's almost like their testing the market to see how many they may need to make, or trying to get some front money before mass producing or something along those lines.
Quote:
I absolutely won't by a new Nikon for that reason for at least 6-12 months for that reason and time for them to work out the bugs (firmware).

NOW is the time to buy the former greats, D700, D3 as those folks are needing $$$ for the new stuff. Which I just did yesterday. Got a great deal on a low shutter count, like new D3.
Well then, it's just like I thought as I said in two of my previous posts.
I've been involved in Photography since 1971 and have owned many cameras and don't think I've ever bought one unless they were already out for a while.
I knew back then camera makers always had to work out the bugs of their new cameras... except for maybe the Pentax K1000 series, Olympus OM1, Minolta SRT 101 series , Canon F-1 series, Nikon F2 series... which I owned way back then at one time or another.
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Old May 23, 2012, 3:16 PM   #7
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Most of the time, I've done it the other way around (early adopter of cameras I've bought).

For example, I can remember buying an Epson 3000Z just as it was introduced. I did the same thing with Nikon Coolpix 990. Interestingly, that model had the same kind of supply issues as the Nikon models we're discussing, as demand was very high when it was introduced, and it was very hard to find one. You'd find them used on Ebay months after their introduction for more than the retail price of them at the time, because dealers couldn't keep up with demand. lol

I did the same thing with a little Konica Minolta KD-510Z I bought, going with a Japanese camera from an Ebay Seller, because it was available earlier than the Minolta G500 (identical camera), despite the potential problems with going gray market.

I was also an early adopter of a Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D (that I still have), and I still use what appears to be the 108th Sony A700 off the line in the first production run for the U.S. market, getting my hands on one in September 2007. lol

There's a very good chance that I'll be an early adopter of the next full frame model Sony releases as an A850/A900 replacement, too.

Another way to look at it is that cameras in that first production run are probably going to be inspected closer for issues. For example, My Sony A700 has not had any problems at all. Of course, I have updated it's firmware as it's come out. But, I did that for feature enhancements versus bug fixes.

But, the opposite can occur, as sometimes first production runs do have issues that are not discovered until later that may require a trip back to the manufacturer. Look at the Nikon D70 as one example of that, where it ended up having some electrical issues causing a symptom that became to be known as BGLOD (Blinking Green Light of Death).

We've seen similar issues with other camera models from a variety of manufacturers, where they ended up having issues that were not discovered in testing. Sometimes the issues show up earlier, sometimes they may not cause problems until many months later; and there's really no way a manufacturer can test for all potential issues.

The well known Sony sensor debacle is an example of a major problem causing problems with lots of cameras later, when sensors quit working (sometimes years later), with humid environments causing accelerated failure rates, resulting in the recall of many thousands of camera models with the issue from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Casio, etc.

There are pros and cons to any approach. But, one way to look at it is that you'll enjoy the benefits a newer camera with more advanced features if you're an earlier adopter.

Of course, whether or not you really need those advancements is another question entirely, as my older cameras can still take good photos. Heck, my wife even uses an old Nikon Coolpix 950 that I still have from time to time, and the photos it takes are just fine for her needs (even though it's only a 2 Megapixel camera model). ;-)
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Old May 23, 2012, 3:43 PM   #8
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Here is my way of looking at it. You don't miss what you don't have yet, no matter how good it is. Like the D3 is still one of the best camera's out there regardless what has come out since then.... D300s, D700 and especially DX series ones. The D4 is better, sure, but not THAT much better. So, I'll get the D4 after it's been out a year or so and it will also cost less.

Regardless what camera you have, new or older, the principals/rules are the same, composition, lighting and knowing how to use the current gear. That has been the same for decades.

Now Jim, I'm like you with computer's & cell phones... gotta have the latest and greatest ASAP... but even then still wait three months or so before getting one.
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Last edited by jack55; May 23, 2012 at 3:51 PM.
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Old May 23, 2012, 4:30 PM   #9
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its not just camera makers that do it, look at sony with playstations, apple with iphone, ipad, as far back as i can remember just about any eagerly awaited product by any company theres allways a supply shortage at first.
what you appear to be saying is that nobody can have one untill theres enough to go around, and that will never happen.
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Old May 24, 2012, 7:17 AM   #10
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Jack, I have to agree with your approach, the early adopters can get the bugs out of the new models coming out as well as deal with the depreciation of brand new equipment.

My preference is to wait until the price has settled and the bugs fixed. And as you mentioned, it's a great time to pick up preowned Nikon camera bodies that, to me, were cost prohibitive at time of release.

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