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Old Apr 24, 2004, 6:19 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tksuther
Jeff: Do you have a D70?
No. Its mere announcement, however, was enough to make me hold off any purchase decision until I had seen what it could do. I'm a Nikon fan (and owner) of many years, and was hoping to stay in the family. But to my eyes -- and I've looked at hundreds of D70 photos by now, taken by people with more photographic skill than I'll ever have -- there's clearly something wrong.

Maybe it's as simple as a firmware bug; in Steve's side-by-side images of the D70's in-camera JPEG vs. post-processed RAW, it seems undeniable that the in-camera JPEG is just busted. Perhaps most of the D70 photos that are available on the web were generated that way, and that accounts for most of the problem. That would be great, because it's fixable.

I still haven't decided what to buy. The D70 has the problems mentioned in this thread. The Canon 10D looks good on paper, but I've owned two Canons in the past and had serious quality problems with both, so I'm just not going there again. The Sigma SD10 produces gorgeous images under ideal conditions, but worse-than-average images in more challenging conditions.

So, for now, I wait. I understand the argument about getting something sooner rather than later, the opportunity cost of pictures not taken, the fact that any of these cameras would be a huge leap up from my 990, yadda yadda... but I have a hard time dropping over $1000 on something that I'm not thrilled with even on the day of purchase.

Grumble.

Jeff
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Old Apr 24, 2004, 7:13 AM   #42
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I seem to recall the EOS-10D had many reported issues too - front/back focusing, soft out of camera images, the Err99 with certain lenses, etc. No camera is without fault - especially with the vocal minority on web forums criticising every last aspect of anything and everything.

bonwick, I don't get what you mean by:

"I've looked at hundreds of D70 photos by now, taken by people with more photographic skill than I'll ever have -- there's clearly something wrong"

I've probably seen the same photos you have before I bought mine, however it's not clear to me - so please supply us links to these pics and what you think is so clearly wrong about them.

The D70 I believe is a first for Nikon being manufactured outside of Japan. The attraction of Thailand IMO are the cheaper labour costs and as such I'm sure there will be initial teething problems or QC issues with certain samples.

Most of those disappointed with the D70 are those that don't own one, and probably won't consider buying one after reading the opinions of a handful of people... and that's fine. It's your money after all.
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Old Apr 24, 2004, 12:30 PM   #43
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FWIW,

As a complete amateur, my impression of the D70 is very positive. It has more features than I'll ever use, but the camera isn't overwhelming. I like how the Mrs. and/or my assistants can just throw it in auto mode and get a decent picture. Even in my virgin SLR hands, with a little PSP adjusting I can print very nice 8x10 photos wtih my Epson C80. Will they pass pro muster? No, but the amateur eye is a more forgiving. Moire? I could care less, but for the record I haven't seen it yet.

I've read complaints on other forums about the plastic body, most based on ignorance of modern polymers. I believe the camera body to be the same as found in frames of some modern handguns-- like my HK USP-- and rifle stocks. Everybody should find it up to its task, and I prefer it over a metal body. Also, the focus problems that I have encountered usually end up being the fault of yours truly and not the camera.

My only complaint is that PhotoMed doesn't make a Nikon ring flash for med/dent applications, if that is important for anybody, then you may want to look at the 10D.

So for any lurkers who want a DSLR for medical or dental applications, and great snapshots out of the office, you will be very satisfied. However, for macro photos of individual teeth I still use my old sony dsc-75-- you're not going to club the patient with the lens, and it is easer to hold w/ one hand. Also, I'd rather keep blood and guts off the Nikon.

Email any comments, as I don't check these forums very often.

Regards,

Jeff
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Old Apr 29, 2004, 9:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoelessone
does the digital rebel/10D look overexposed, or is that just me?

Yes, i am an owner of the 300D, but have been trying to decide of the image quality (along with everybody else) seems to be better on the digital rebel or the D70. If teh image quality is the same, ill probably try to sell my DR. If the D70 is even slightly less (more noise, etc, etc) I will keep my DR. If the D70 is BETTER, i will REALLY try to sell my DR and purchase the D70.

So, why do the colors in the DR (and 10D) look blown out, especially the windows...

Thoughts?
Both Canon and Nikon do things slightly different...

Nikon opts to retain dynamic range at the risk of increasing noise so they are fairly conservative with their meter and tone curve...

Canon is all about creamy smooth images and thus tend to push things towards the bright side of the spectrum... They tend to have tone curves that are mostly above 18% and their meter tends to be a little liberal... Basically they pride themselves on the lower noise at the expense of losing detail in the highlights...

If you overide the camera you can make the Nikon work like the Canon and the Canon work like the Nikon. It is all just a matter of personal preference...

I will say though that the D70, although not without issue does appear to have a resolution increase over the 300D and most of the cameras issues disappear when shooting RAW.

As for the 300D it is a good camera and is very much like the Rebel line of film cameras (understand Nikon doesn't have a low end line per se and they just follow traditional SLR rules).
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Old Apr 30, 2004, 4:47 PM   #45
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I was not agree in my first post here that it's the dissapointment of the year....

But slowly slowly I begin to believe it's going to be a dissapointment for Nikon when they recieve the faulty cameras.

May be they have to slow down the production and pay more attention for the Quality Control.
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Old Apr 30, 2004, 4:52 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Conqueror
I was not agree in my first post here that it's the dissapointment of the year....

But slowly slowly I begin to believe it's going to be a dissapointment for Nikon when they recieve the faulty cameras.

May be they have to slow down the production and pay more attention for the Quality Control.
No sh***t...may be we begin to understand why the production on this camera was not in Japan...but...

Tough crowd...
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Old Apr 30, 2004, 4:57 PM   #47
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May be you are right.
I don't know what to do........wait litlebit longer or order it now.....

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Old May 7, 2004, 7:10 AM   #48
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There is one thing you should keep in mind when comparing Steve's sample images taken with the SD10 with those taken with other DSLRs--because of the higher lens factor of the SD10 (1.7 I think, if I recall right) everything visible is larger in the SD10 shots. When I first saw them I was very taken by the apparent higher sharpness, started to believe the notion that maybe, somehow, the 3MP SD10 was actually producing better images than 6 MP other brands. Calculated what's going on, and it is not so. The difference may not look large, but it effectively means part of the image from the 6 MP cameras that is being compared to the full Sigma frame is about 4-5 MP, not 6. As far as I can tell, if the photos were adjusted so that objects took up the same proportions of the the SD10 frames that they do in the frames of other cameras, the SD10 would be about the same, maybe a bit worse. If Steve moved in on the brick building with the Nikon, Canon, etc SLRs so that it was the same size as in the Sigma frame, or moved away with the Sigma, then we'd have a valid comparison--not that this is meant as a criticism of his technique, I'm sure there are reasons for it.
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