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Old Jan 26, 2005, 5:54 AM   #1
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For example you can set the image to vivid which enhances saturation, contrast and sharpness.

While I can see this having an effect when shooting JPEG it seems unlikely they would impact on the RAW data as this is supposed to be the unprocessed sensor data.

I'm trying to get this clear in my head as the manual makes no mention of how or if these settings are used when shooting RAW.
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Old Jan 27, 2005, 8:00 AM   #2
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Nagasaki wrote:
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For example you can set the image to vivid which enhances saturation, contrast and sharpness.

While I can see this having an effect when shooting JPEG it seems unlikely they would impact on the RAW data as this is supposed to be the unprocessed sensor data.

I'm trying to get this clear in my head as the manual makes no mention of how or if these settings are used when shooting RAW.
I guess it will affect thr raw file as well.
If you set the colour saturation to "vivid" the camera will -IMHO- apply this setting to the raw file in camera.
But you'll be able to change the settings afterwards without loosing quality or something.
Generally, there is no need to use these settings on raw files because you can make any change afterwards with nikon caputre. but you can...
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Old Jan 27, 2005, 8:29 AM   #3
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OK guys Im new to the D70 sorta but what are some advantages and disadvatnges to each?

Are Raw files sizes bigger than Jpeg?

Someone said Raw images come out sharper.

What tips you have for soft images

Im using the D70 with the lens kit.
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Old Jan 27, 2005, 8:34 AM   #4
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Zeroskillet wrote:
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OK guys Im new to the D70 sorta but what are some advantages and disadvatnges to each?

Are Raw files sizes bigger than Jpeg?

Someone said Raw images come out sharper.

What tips you have for soft images

Im using the D70 with the lens kit.
well raw files are bigger than jpeg because they're uncompressed image data.
it is a kind of digital negative of an image. That means you can adjust sharpness, exposure, saturation, colour balance, white balance ect afterwards without loosing quality.
but they're not sharper than jpegs. actually there's no difference. but you can apply a sharpening setting to a raw file in post processing and the image will come out sharper than out of the cam.
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Old Jan 27, 2005, 9:07 AM   #5
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Sorry for being annoying or an idiot....so what you suggest?

Also I should be shooting in sharp correct? Cuz I have noticed that some images come out soft. Ill post samples in a few days once I get all my files organized.
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Old Jan 27, 2005, 10:22 AM   #6
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My advice is shoot RAW. With RAW files you have far more control over the final result. For example you can change the white balance and compensate for a small amount of over or under exposure. You do have to apply sharpening to the RAW files but you determine how much rather than having it done in camera. This allows you to try different settings to select the right amount of sharpening for the individual picture.

However to make the best use of RAW files you need something like Photoshop CS. If you got Nikon Picture Project with the camera I'd ditch it and download the free Nikon View shoftware from the Nikon website. Nikon View provides better RAW post processing and allows you to save the results as lossless TIFF files rather than JPEGs.


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Old Jan 27, 2005, 10:30 AM   #7
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kex wrote:
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well raw files are bigger than jpeg because they're uncompressed image data.
it is a kind of digital negative of an image. That means you can adjust sharpness, exposure, saturation, colour balance, white balance ect afterwards without loosing quality.
but they're not sharper than jpegs. actually there's no difference. but you can apply a sharpening setting to a raw file in post processing and the image will come out sharper than out of the cam.
Actually, Nikon .nef RAW files are compressed. The RAW data is compressed in camera. That is why .nef files are only about 5Mb. Unlike a jpeg, that is the only time it is compressed. It doesn't degrade each time you save.

Just remember, any sharpening you do is a software alteration of the image produced by the camera. If you want true optical sharpness, you have to buy a sharper lens, such as the Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.8. In fact, that's an exercise I need to remember to try. Set the "Kit" lens to 50mm and take a picture. Same picture with the 50mm. Compare the photos with sharpening applied to the "Kit" photo so it appears as sharp as the 50mm f/1.8.

Cheers, Eric
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Old Feb 1, 2005, 11:10 AM   #8
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50mm vs Kit lens sharpness test results.

Well, I haven't finished playing around with the images I took yet, but I do have some preliminary results.

I set the D70 on a tripod, set identical camera settings and identical lighting. I set the kit lens at 50mm and the other lens was the 50mm f1.8. I didn't set any sharpening in the camera, but the files were .nef. I did post processing in Capture. The image was of some plants in our living room, and other than sharpening, the only post processing was a little white balance alteration.

I don't have the photos here, but without sharpening, the 50mm is clearly sharper than the kit lens. In fact, no matter how much sharpening I applied to the kit photo, the unsharpenend 50mm photo was sharper. I printed the unsharpened 50mm and the max sharpened kit photo on matte paper. Comparing them side by side, I could tell no difference. Perhaps I would need younger eyes than mine. I really should have done the print on gloss (and I will) but the matte paper was sitting next to the printer. (The printer is an Epson R800.)

BTW:The photos did not have the exact same field of view. This confused me at first, but after thinking it through, I should have expected as much.The kit lens is longer than the 50mm, so the camera would have to be moved back slightly to get the same field of view.

In addition to printing on premium gloss paper, I want to do a comparison of the two photos after processing in Paint Shop Pro. I suspect PSP has more effective sharpening available, but I would also guess that you can go too far, making the image unrealistic. I don't have Photoshop, so somebody else will have to do that test.

Cheers, Eric
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Old Feb 5, 2005, 8:42 AM   #9
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I thought of a way to answer my own question. I set the optimise setting to vivid and shot RAW + JPEG and the JPEG files have the saturation and sharpness settings applied the RAW files do not. It took quite a bit of work in photoshop to get the RAW files to look as good as the JPEG. Still worth it for the flexibility that RAW provides.
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Old Feb 7, 2005, 7:06 AM   #10
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No here's a thing. When I did my test I used Photoshop CS and the settings made no difference to the RAW file. Today I thought I wonder what you get if you use Nikon View and in this software the vivid setting is applied. I guess that the Nikon software is reading information about the image settings in the NEF file and applying them when processing the NEF file. So from now on I'm going to carry on shooting RAW but I may use Nikon View instead of Photoshop to process the files. Instead of always using PS I'll use the software that gets me closest to what I'm trying to achieve.
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