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Old Jul 19, 2006, 5:55 AM   #31
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here's two pics i took with the D50 in Macro mode....

i used the manual focus on the 18-55 lens...



these pics were taken at night, indoors with just a normal wall light on inside the house....

the flash popped up automatically whenever the light wasnt good enough...



i reckon u gonna love the D50 divagirl....

i cant wait to get my own.




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Old Jul 19, 2006, 7:41 AM   #32
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PRETTY BIG UPDATE TO ONE OF MY POSTS (and my research)
For what it's worth, I just could not rest until I found some true differences in Canon and Nikon as manufacturers, between different models. I couldn't rest with the "average person won't see a difference..." "just go get one" types of responses. The color difference, out of the box, default settings was just too drastic of a difference for me to accept.

The for what it's worth part, digging and digging, I did find the d50 defaults to a different color mode than even the d70, IIIa versus Ia, I believe. The manual, page 77, goes on to explain this is for more "vivid" colors in landscapes, etc.

Point is, and NOT to knock the d50, but my unscientific experiment was certainly NOT comparing apples to apples. I assume any manufacturer would have had a more color enhanced mode. The d50 just defaults to their "vivid" mode. I guess my experiment should have put the d50 on its Ia mode or the Rebel on whatever it's color enhanced mode might be. Regardless, great pictures. Just wanted to pass what I've learned along to others who may have followed this post and d50 vs Rebel research.



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Old Jul 19, 2006, 6:39 PM   #33
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What Zeiss lenses are available for Nikon bodies...I called B&H and they know of none!
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Old Jul 20, 2006, 4:05 AM   #34
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Gosh Snakeman, the macro pics are lovely...I didn't realise the D50 had a macro mode worth mentioning. I'm sure your pics result from a combo a great camera + talent though. I'm so convinced about the D50 now that I can't wait to get one. I am one excited girl. Keep posting your pics in the meantime!



regards divagirl
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Old Jul 21, 2006, 5:48 AM   #35
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thanks divagirl.....


make sur eu post some pics when u get ur camera as well hey.
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 4:57 AM   #36
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It's not so clear cut IMO the ranges overlap. Unfortunately the lenses don't so you have to think ahead. The 350Dis the starting point and is very compact and light but handling lets it down. The next 2 are Nikons the D50 and the D70, next up is the Canon30D. The 350D is probaly as good as the D50 interms of noise if not a little better but the D50 has the edge from then on.After the 30D iswhen it gets tricky and why you need to think ahead. The Canon5D is much more expensive than the D200yet it's often compared on a like for like basis.If you get the D200 you can get a 17-55 2.8 as a kit lens and still come out cheaper than a 5D so you'll not be using high ISO as much.

But there is more.Canon go the full frame sensor route. This means they definitely have the high ISO advantage from this point on, but that's not the whole story. It's not comparing like with like. Firstly any "Digital only" lenses you have acquired will need to be replaced and you will need to up your long glass. It'shugely cheaper to get a wider lens to compensate for the 1.5x Nikon sensors than it is to get an equivalent long lens for the Canon and you will almost certainly be trading F stops. It's with the long glass you need the Fstops not at the wide end. So in 99% of cases it's how the Nikon performs at 800ISO compared with the Canon at 1600 or even higher.

So I have a D200 and a D2X. If the D200 had been around I'd have bought it over the D2X not because it better, it's not, but it's better value unless you need bombproof and 8FPS. I don't really.

For example my 80-200 VR 2.8 EQUIVALENT to a 120-300 2.8 on the Canon 5D or 1D. No such animal except by Sigma which is much heavier and no VR so the Canon will have to go up a stop using higer ISO to shoot in the same conditions. With the 300 2.8 again I have a 420 2.8, Canon do have a 400 2.8 but much heavier and for the price difference I can have another body. As for the 600 equivalent toa 900 F4 who makes one of those?So whilst the Canon does edge things at the same ISO it loses out except at short focal lengths where it is not so crucial and for the price diference at long focal lengths you can have a bag of super fast short primes.
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 12:36 PM   #37
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VinnyP,
Great reply. Another post that offers tons of perspective. Your post seems to educate and provide perspective on issues a newbie doesn't even know to ask.

Thanks!



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Old Jul 24, 2006, 1:26 PM   #38
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VinnyP! wrote:
Quote:
It'shugely cheaper to get a wider lens to compensate for the 1.5x Nikon sensors than it is to get an equivalent long lens for the Canon and you will almost certainly be trading F stops. It's with the long glass you need the Fstops not at the wide end. So in 99% of cases it's how the Nikon performs at 800ISO compared with the Canon at 1600 or even higher.
I'm following these threads in both forums and there's some good information. But, this explanaition stumps me.

First, you say "it's with long glass you need fstops not at wide end" - That baffles me - a wider aperture is desired for 2 reasons: faster shutters or less DOF. In the case of less DOF, you need wider apertures at shorter focal lengths to produce the same shallow DOF of a longer lens with narrower aperture (i.e a 400mm 5.6 lens has shallower dof than a 50mm 1.8). And, if you're in a low light situation and need a certain aperture to get the shutter speeds you want then you need that aperture regardless of focal length. For example, if you're shooting indoor basketball and want 1/500 shutter speed. Whether you have a 50mm lens or a 200mm lens you need the same aperture value to obtain the 1/50 shutter speed.

Even when you're talking low shutter speed situations - the 1 over rule applies to equivelent focal length. So if you're shooting a 1.5 crop body with a 100mm lens - the rule stipulates you want 1/150 shutter speed to hand-hold - the same as if you had a 150mm lens on a full-frame body.

Now VR or IS is another matter. But, forgetting about VR or IS (since both systems have this technology) please describe a shooting situation where you can get the same results with the Nikon at ISO 800 and the Canon at 1600 while achieving the same affect (i.e same DOF and same shutter speed). This point doesn't make much sense to me.


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Old Jul 24, 2006, 4:55 PM   #39
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John G I have read your post a number of times and find it confusing so if I completely miss your point please forgive me. This is going to be a long post I think sorry.

You have asked for situations where for the same results would be obtained for the Canon and Nikon for the same shutter speed and depth of field with the Nikon at 800 but the Canon at 1600 well that would never happen exactly. I was being kind in that situation it would be more likethe Nikon at 800 and theCanonat alomost2000!!!

At the risk of being boring I will try and explain. If you know all this again I canonly apologiseanddon't mean to imply anything, I am just explaining my reasoning.DOF is mostly a factor ofACTUAL lens length, aperture and distance to subject. The other factor is the "circle of confusion" this is based on the sensor or film size. For example a 50mm lens at f2.8 at10ft on my Nikon has a depth of field of 1.29ft The same lens on a full frame Canon at the same aperture has a depth of field of 1.92ft.

However the Nikon field of view is 1.5x smaller. So to get the same field of view on the Canon it would need a 75mm lens. On the Canon at F2.8 that lens gives a depth of field of 0.84ft. To get the same depth of field it's over F4 and almost F4.5 almost a stop and a third. So to get the same shutter speed the Canon would need to be at F2000 or therabouts.

That doesn't mean that's always an advantage for the Nikon as I said in my post at shorter focal lengths there are many times when this will be an advantage for the Canon especially when high shutter speeds don't matter and when you wanta shallow depth of field. That's why I said " for the price diference at long focal lengths you can have a bag of super fast short primes" To get as shallow a depth of field on the Nikon with the 50mm of between 1.8 and f2. So if you want a shallow depth of field for the same apertureat the equivalent magnification theCanon wins. If you want a higher shutter speed, lower ISO or a larger depth of field the Nikon wins. This is often a standoff with even a slight advantage for the Canon at short focal lengths since to get the same results the Nikon needs to buy fast wide optics and in some cases the Canon can achieve a shallow depth of field or an extreme wide angle that the Nikon can't match in any circumstances. So if you regularly need 35mm equivalentwider than 12mm or use a 28mm 1.4 wide open the Canon is your only choice.

That is not many users. Most landscape people shoot 17 upwards and like a large depth of fiield. The Canon wins for Portrait photographers hands down with the Luscious 85mm 1.2. The Nikon 85mm 1.4 does give a similar depth of field but of course you are working further away.

It tips the other way for long lenses especially when cost comes into it. Throwing a background out of focus is not too tricky with 200mm+ and usually you want more depth of field and the limiting factor is the shutter speed. For example with my 80-200 2.8 at 200 mm the depth of field is only 0.08ft at 10ft. for the same field of view the Canon needs to step up to 300mm 2.8. The price difference is 2K and the shallower depth of field and weightwill compromise picture taking. They both need at least 1/300 shutter speed as you say but to get it the Canon would need to sacrifice depth of field or ISO to the Nikon.

Finally lets take the big guns. My 600mm F4 needs a 900mm for the same field of view on the Canon. There is no 900mm lens and no longer lens with an F4. The closest is a 600mm F4 with a 1.4X Tcon. If we ignore the quality issues and the fact it's still shorter it's still a stop slower. So wide open to get the same shutter speed the Canon will alwaysneed to be at ISO 1600 to the Nikons 800 but as Ihave shownto get the same depth of field its ISO 2000 at F6.7

Sorry again for the length
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 5:08 PM   #40
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Just to say I am not a long time Nikon user. I used to use Canon film cameras since the AE1 F1 and A1, through to the T90. I was using them alongside myMedium Formatcameraswhere the same arguments went on.

However when Canon abondoned the FD mount I had to let go. I moved to Nikon out of spite and for future proofing. I was pleased eventually... the F5, F100 days were good.Butwhen digital came alongI was again with the poor relation the Canon digital SLRs were way ahead. I just couldn't let go again so I hung on. The D2H was the first digital camera I bought but in all honesty it was still outgunned on performance the same with the D2Hs. It was not until the D2x that I had a serious contender. But then, in my opinion, Canon made a mistake with the full frame sensor for the reasons above. I hope they keep both sizes, then it's a straight choice, competition helps keep prices down and quality up.
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