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Old Jul 13, 2006, 9:08 PM   #1
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MOderator: Posted in both Nikon and Canon. Looking for perspective from both camps. Please leave both posts active.

Okay, not a very scientific experiment. But desperately trying to decide between Rebel XT/350 and d50 before Canon rebate expires, I've been researching, reading, scanning pbase and even performed mulitple side-by-side comparisons between cameras in local stores. Even though I've posted many, this is not a "what should I buy" post. I'm putting in the effort. I was sold on Rebel. Then took pics. Was sold on outdoor pics of Nikon. Then, began looking more and more closely at indoor. It's darn 50/50. I'd like to have one for outdoors, one for indoors.

Yes, now for the questions and challenges: store rep and I did everything we could to make it an apples to apples comparison. Defaulted cameras, same ISO, took pictures from same distances, same angles as best we could. CERTAINLY there could be more scientific experiments, but I/we shot pictures as I would own camera.

The Nikon d50 CLEARLY had better color outside. Everyone I've shown agrees on 9 out of 10 pictures. The pictures varied from buildings, to flowers, to bushes, car colors and features, etc, etc. Good range of colors throughout shadows, distances, etc.

Now, going back indoors, the Canon blew away the d50. Difference was much more drastic than that of the outdoors shots. I've seen both sides debate which is better as you move up in ISO. This is where my own understanding begins to breakdown. Store rep moved both cameras to 400 ISO. Also, Nikon flash, which seemed much strong completely washed out skin tones.

Can anyone give feedback. Last point, lenses were the kit lenses. Granted, Nikon is supposed to provide better glass in kit lens. Could that make much difference?

I'd love to post some of those sample pics if someone could teach me how to get under the file size requirement.
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Old Jul 13, 2006, 11:31 PM   #2
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If you have WIN-XP, the following will down load the Image Resizer program... not the best as resizing in PSE4 or the like but, hey, its free... and sets up on a right click menu...



http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...ertoySetup.exe
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 2:37 AM   #3
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Please do not go by the images that you see on the camera LCD's. I've found my nikon d50 (and others have too) LCD screen is much brighter and contrasty than the "real" image that comes out.
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 5:28 AM   #4
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For one thing, flash becomes more and more unreliable as you move up in ISO. If you're using flash, there is no need to increase ISO as long as you're withing the shooting range of the flash.

Also remember, as you get to know the camera, your results will improve. I doubt any of the clerks have enough real world experience with both cameras to know the ins and outs and how to achieve the best results under most conditions. Both cams can be tweaked and set up to achieve resuls tailored towards your taste.


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Old Jul 14, 2006, 6:50 AM   #5
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STeve, the pictures were analyzed when I got home on the computer. That's why I took in my own cards. (My first post got deleted, maybe I didn't mention that in the second post.)

rj, Hear you loud and clear. This clerk was young, still in film photography, saving up for d200. Very technical, very good. Had me use no flash as much as possible when indoors. Guess that's why he went to ISO 400. Flash was only used a couple of different times and that was what washed out skin tones. AMAZING the differences. Again, he may not have been the best with the camera, yet, but, one camera got true hair colors and washed out skin. The other got better skin tones but you couldn't tell the color hair at all. Amazing.

Posted this in both Nikon and Canon forums to hear from both camps. Certainly beginning to realize both are good buys and the user is the most important factor. That said, I still can't imagine how, in broad daylight, no flash, cameras on their respective P settings, a gold color car looked deadon with the d50 and washed out with the rebel. Then, a car much farther away looked dead on in it's maroon color with the Nikon but way to dark with the Rebel. Distant objects looked darker with the rebel. Then, my indoor debate. The rebel seemed to blow away the d50 by keeping objects brighter and truer in color when inside. The d50 seemed to lose the
ability to capture light and darkened colors. VERY obvious on the whites I captured.

As stated in CAnon post, the user could change all that and post process. Well, d50 looks great for outdoor shots but the user will either have to learn a lot or post process the indoor shots. OR vice versa for the rebel.

Granted once home and shooting pics, you won't have the other to compare and you'll probably be happy. But, now with that knowledge, I guess I'd always wonder...



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Old Jul 14, 2006, 9:15 AM   #6
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Seriously, just buy either camera, they're both very good cameras.

For that matter, I don't think you're going wrong with a Pentax, Oly, or the new Sony, either.

As for your results, they're not all that surprising. The D50 is known to produce punchier images out of the box, so it's no surprise that the outdoor shots look more pleasing (for that matter, the Rebel could have been adjusted to give it a similar look).

Indoors, IIRC, the Canon ISO 400 is more equivalent to ISO 640 on the D50, so when you're shooting no-flash pictures indoors in a mode that constrains shutter speed, the D50 pictures probably came out underexposed.

As far as flash, there are a number of reasons why things could go wrong.

Really, just buy either camera and stop this silly Nikon vs. Canon argument.
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 3:14 PM   #7
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thebac,
Ironically, your frustrated comments were amongst the first to attempt to answer some of my questions. YOu have an opinion that out of the box, there may be some expected differences. That is what I have been searching for the whole time.

Only wish you had changed your frustrated energy into productive energy and elaborated. So, on the one hand, thank you. On the other hand, if you don't like my post, keep on trucking. I have a right to post and you have a right to ignore. If you see my name in the future, assume it's "silly" and walk on by. Deal?

That said, the continual response is that the user, a knowledgeable and skilled user, can get whatever results he wants from each camera. I'm getting the point. I get it. Just buy one and start shooting.

Still a complete coin toss. I have no emotion. I have no reason to pick one over the other. My problem. Anybody got a coin???????


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Old Jul 14, 2006, 4:57 PM   #8
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leeraff,

first, apologies--I didn't mean to imply that you're stupid or silly or offend you.

My silly applies to the Nikon vs. Canon--everyone has pretty much told you (some several times as you've asked this on at least three occasions) that either camera will do a good job. If you ask us a fourth time, it's likely that the answer will still stand--either will be just fine. Yes, the default settings differ a little, but as you grow and learn how to adjust your camera to suit you best, the differences will be rather small.

I'd say that you should go to the store, and hold both cameras again--don't worry about the output, as that can be adjusted as you learn how to use the camera--change a few settings, and pick the one that feels better (trust me, ergonomics matter). If the Rebel is too small, pick the D50. If you feel the D50 is too large, pick the Rebel. If you don't like how the buttons are arranged on the Rebel, pick the D50. If you don't like the menus on the D50, pick the Rebel.

I'm not telling you to buy a camera b/c I'm sick of hearing about Nikon vs. Canon, it's just that you're missing out on lots of pictures, when the differences in output quality between entry-level DSLR's are really minimal.
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 5:39 PM   #9
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Leeraff-

FWIW - guidance, opinions and biases expressed by owners of both digis can only get you to a certain point. After that, its your hard-earned money that you're parting with and it will be your newly purchasedsystem that will be employed. You've identified that, in your erstwhile opinion thus far, its a toss up.

I'd suggest, if you have past digital images stored on a hardrive, look at them. Use a software program such as Exposure Plot (http://www.cpr.demon.nl/prog_plotf.html) to evaluate your past use of focal lengths (zoom) and shutter speeds/ISOs etc to see where your true interests lie.

If you feel the Canon is better for indoors/low light and that's what your main historical imaging seems to reveal... go that way. If the reverse, go w/the Nikon. Beyond just the limited evaluation areas you've identified thus far, there is also the issue of the follow on lenses you're likely to progress to in the future. Exposure Plot is a good program for this to see if you're more likely to use wide angle versus long zoom ranges.

As others have pointed out, its usually more a case of inexperience/improper techniqueswith photography/digital imaging than it is with 'bad' equipment (Low priced, consumer lenses being a possible exception here...)

Now, if you haven't had any experience with digital cameras and SLR's in particular (film or otherwise), you may be better off, IMHO,with a ~$300 prosumer fixed-lens digi to acquire the needed experience to truly learn where your interests are, what system capabilities are better suited to themand develop the needed experience and techniques to be happy and successful with a dSLR... entry-level or otherwise.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 10:35 PM   #10
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Probably finally made my camera decision but as I've learned more and more, found this on another "review" site. May answer A LOT about my "unscientific experiment" and feeling that the d50 color seemed to "pop" more than the rebel. It basically goes on to state the default setting for the d50 is different than that of the d70, blah, blah, blah. From the manual, I learn the default Color Mode is IIIa sRGB. (This seems to be versus an original Ia in the d70.) The manual states this mode "Produces nature and landscapes shots with VIVID colors." It seems to default to a more "vivid" color mode.

Quote from another "review" site...
As you can see the D50 image contains virtually the same amount of detail as the D70s but has a slightly softer and less 'crisp' appearance. As mentioned earlier in this review we are currently assuming that this is due to a lighter anti-alias filter and/or different image processor. Color balance is bound to be different because the D50's default color mode is mode III where as on the D70 it is mode I. Otherwise there are few surprises, if you look really closely you can see that the D50 image has fewer moire / maze artifacts.

FYI for anyone still following...

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