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HarjTT Mar 5, 2007 8:02 AM

With the two new cams and the E1 replacment it looks as if OLy have dropped Kodak for their sensors or could it be that Kodak and Pana designed the new Live MOS sensors together ? Personally, I don;t mind but it would be seriously cool if Kodak and Pana had got together for these sensors and that some of the tech Kodak has developed for the 1.3x M8 sensor was used for the new Oly cameras.



:O :?

Rriley Mar 5, 2007 9:20 AM

well it must be for some reason
lower noise ?
theres a new image processing engine too


Norm in Fujino Mar 5, 2007 9:40 AM

My guess is it's mostly due to the needs of liveview. The Kodak CCDs produce too much heat. And liveview is going to be on all E-system cameras from now, so it presents a certain dilemma. The E-330 seems to have been a kind of a test case to see if the Pany nMOS sensor would pass the test for color and noise.

fldspringer Mar 5, 2007 9:35 PM

CCDs don't do live view.

I am not ordering a replacement for my E500 yet. Thereare still things I'd like to know. I'd love to hear something about sensor noise vs the Kodak sensor and the only thing in the releases deals with limiting noise and retaining highlights via the new image processor. How's noise on RAW? I'm concerned due to higher pixel density usually is in proportion to noise.

I love the color and image quality of the Kodak and I'm hoping those qualities are retained. Time will tell.

One of the things I did like is file size of RAW image is actually smaller thanthe 8 mp E500.

I may upgrade, but I won't be the first kid on the block. I'll make the new system prove itself first, and street prices fall about when that happens. Maybe a year from now....Maybe.

All in all Oly anounced a bunch. They answered a bunch of wishes with the new releases. One of the biggest things in my estimation is the E510 MAY actually have a pentaprism setup vs the E500 pentamirror. That would be NICE! Maybe I can't wait a year:-)


Greg Chappell Mar 5, 2007 10:31 PM

Time has already told. The E330 passed the test with flying colors. That's why these new models don't have a Kodak sensor.

All I can say is "good bye Kodak".

They won't be missed. The Panasonic sensor is JUST as good color-wise, and better, noise wise. Here are some tests I've been doing with my new E330. It betters both my E300 and E1 at any setting above ISO 400 you want to pick. If the E410 and E510 are improvements, and you know they will be, this is just one more field where Kodakcan just stay gone as far as I am concerned...

The E510 is a penta-mirror, andI've already pre-ordered at Arlington Camera. The next time my E300 sees the light of day will be on eBay.

Rriley Mar 5, 2007 10:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
on noise
see how close L1 is to some others


fldspringer Mar 5, 2007 11:10 PM

The L1, the Leica, and the E330 all usethe panasonic 7.5 MP sensor while the new Olympus' use a 10+ MP panasonic. Noise typically increases as pixel count increases unless there is new technology in the manufacturing that helps to lessen it. I'll accept the same amount of noise, but I'd rather have 8 MP if the 10 MP is dirtier at ISO 400 and up.

Sure I'll accept a couple of extra MP if there is no noise penalty, but I don't get the megapixel race. Must be a while lot of folks printing poster size stuff.

fldspringer Mar 6, 2007 6:43 AM

Sorry about the pentaprism info. Got it from the DPReview preliminary specs and it is WRONG!

Great source of info at:

kenbalbari Mar 6, 2007 4:04 PM


I'll accept the same amount of noise, but I'd rather have 8 MP if the 10 MP is dirtier at ISO 400 and up.
I agree on that. And I'm not entirely convinced yet on the Panasonic delivering low enough noise at 10MP. We'll see. But Olympus seems to be putting a strong emphasis on that, and they do usually seem to deliver as promised.


In the development of this camera, particular emphasis was placed on boosting performance and further reducing image noise

As one of the world's most compact D-SLRs. The E-410 boasts two very convincing arguments. Matched with a high-performance image sensor and a fast new image engine featuring outstanding noise characteristics, ambitious photographers can look forward to superior picture quality and excellent handling that exceeds their expectations – while retaining amazing mobility.
So their two big marketing points on this seem to be low noise and compact size. If there weren't some improvement on noise, I expect they'd have chosen to emphasize something else.

Still, It's no big achievment that the E-330 from last year was an improvement over the Kodack sensors from models intoduced in 2003 and 2004. The recent 10 MP Kodack sensor in the E-400 , however, looked to me like it was producing better overall results than the E-330, with similar noise levels despite more pixels. Still even that was about stop worse in noise than the Canon 400D. But they really only need to match that performance to have a winner in my opinion, with in body IS and the other advantages of Olympus. I normally expect there to still be some trade offs with the smaller sensor.

One thing I liked about the E-400 though was the low key approach to noise reduction. And while I can only guess at how the sensor will perform on the new models, what looks really good in the specs for the new models is the level of control they seem to be offering over the in camera noise reduction:
  • Noise filter (Off, low, standard, high) - amount of noise reduction applied to images[/*]
  • Noise reduction (on/off) - for long exposures only; increases shot-to-shot speeds[/*]
The D80 does have a similar level of control, but the E-330 and D40 only allowed an on/off for the noise filter, and I believe the XTi only has the option for long exposures.

kenbalbari Mar 6, 2007 4:12 PM

When you're right you're right. I hadn't really looked that closely at the L1 before. But that sample is right there in this E-400 review:

Clearly even slightly beating the 400D in that shot. Though obviously doing so with less MP. I should have signed in so I could have seen your image before writing my previous post!

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