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Old Oct 8, 2006, 3:58 PM   #1
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Why can the Olympus E-series engineers not add a software option to lock up the mirror and re-direct the image data to the rear LCD, until the shutter push?

I have many OM lenses and with the OM to 4/3E adapter I could frame and focus on an E-500 or an E-330.

I understand the E-330 is a breakthrough, and does this, but with several compromises and caveats. From their description of the 330, it appears that the problem lies in the ability to present a 10X sample of image for critical focusing. OK, but what I suggest would make using the OM series lenses at least practical.

I would buy and convert to the E series if this could be done.

Incidentally, I feel the use of the E-series "focus by wire" is an abomination.

saob
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Old Oct 8, 2006, 4:38 PM   #2
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saob wrote:
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Why can the Olympus E-series engineers not add a software option to lock up the mirror and re-direct the image data to the rear LCD, until the shutter push?

I have many OM lenses and with the OM to 4/3E adapter I could frame and focus on an E-500 or an E-330.

I understand the E-330 is a breakthrough, and does this, but with several compromises and caveats. From their description of the 330, it appears that the problem lies in the ability to present a 10X sample of image for critical focusing. OK, but what I suggest would make using the OM series lenses at least practical.

I would buy and convert to the E series if this could be done.

Incidentally, I feel the use of the E-series "focus by wire" is an abomination.

saob
Yes,there are obvious compromises in the current design of the E-330. Why not just go buy the Nikon body that does the same and get some cheap Nikkors....oh, that's right, they don't have such a body do they! Go buy the Canon that does it since they are the industry leader....opps, they don't have one either, I forgot...

This is new technology and Olympus seems to be the onlymaker interested in giving it in any form to us, so count yourself lucky that it's available at all. Be patient, they will perfect it. In my opinion, they would have been better offdedicating the funds they used to create this technology in perfectingtheir AF system and getting it more on par with everyone elses with additional focal points before doing anything like Live View, butOlympus do tend to go their own way from time to time. As the famous song goes, you can't always get what you want... at least maybe not when you want it. They've introduced the technology, that's the first step. Now then need to improve it, and no doubt they will in future models.


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Old Oct 8, 2006, 7:23 PM   #3
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There is one Canon that does exactly that, BUT it has to clear the sensor before taking the picture which means it closes the shutter and drops the mirror back down (in order for it to reset the shutter to be opened again it also has to drop the mirror), so that means it's a lot slower in taking a picture.

Now, our cameras have a shutter life of 30,000 activations...if you used this method for every picture just imagine being able to only take 15,000 pictures before your camera dies (30,000 is bad enough, compared to the E-1's 150,000 activations). Is that type of live view worth costing half of the life of the camera (not to mention the more potential for hot pixels with your CCD being on much longer).
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Old Oct 8, 2006, 11:26 PM   #4
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Three reasons...money, money and money. Live view for a DSLR will cost extra. As Greg pointed out:

Why not just go buy the Nikon body that does the same and get some cheap Nikkors....oh, that's right, they don't have such a body do they! Go buy the Canon that does it since they are the industry leader....opps, they don't have one either, I forgot...

If the "industry leaders" thought they could profitably sell such a model at the present time they'd be making one. Oly gave us a first look with the E-330. I don't, however, think they're going to reverse-engineer the technology justso owners of the OM series lenses can use onthem new DSLR's. Not a "we don't support old gear" issue (hence the adapter) but a matter of how may units would they reasonably expect to sell to recover the R&D costson such a model, much less make a profit.

We like to think the suppliers of all this wonderful technology do so for our pleasure, but the reality is they'rea business, just like others, interested in selling what makes a profit for themselves and shareholders.
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Old Oct 9, 2006, 2:45 AM   #5
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The Canon with live view I was refering to was the EOS20Da.
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 9:30 PM   #6
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The E-330 already does this when using the main sensor for the live view.
Thus the engineering problems needed to make the 300 or the 500 do only this should have already been addressed .

For example if the sw could be changed to let the main image sensor feed the vue screen, or to allow its data to be sent to a firewire link, the only other requirement would be to lock up the mirror and then close and (controlled) open the shutter.

If the sw was open source, I'd be very interested in trying to make that happen.

Regarding the 15,000 operation life of the camera, that seems rather short. Is there a source for this statistic with more information.

I know all the toys come from a business with all those constraints of available market. I wonder if a partially open way approach, or a completely open one might yield many new product enhancements and even wider markets.

Original post was only a speculation if there are technical (as opposed to marketing) impediments to adding the live view in this manner.
Thank you for your advice and interest.

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Old Oct 14, 2006, 9:49 PM   #7
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Thanks very much for the reference. The EOS 20Da is exactly what I was suggesting.

I know they have also modified the sensitivity, perhaps by removing some IR suppression filter, but I would guess the principal change was in embedded control sw.

That's exactly the "why don't they" question I was asking.

Of course, they think the market is only for astro work. Yet the EOS $1,500 to $2,000 current price does somewhat dampen my interest.

But why not Oly? They cl;early had this market in mind when they made the OM adapter.

Thanks again,

saob

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Old Oct 15, 2006, 9:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Regarding the 15,000 operation life of the camera, that seems rather short. Is there a source for this statistic with more information.
You missed the part of my reply that said Canon's live mode (and Oly's Live Mode B) move's the mirror up and opens the shutter to do live view...then to take a picture the shutter has to close and then open again...so if the shutter had an activation life 30,000 times, if you used live view with every picture you would only be able to take 15,000 pictures because for each picture you would be activating the shutter TWICE, cutting the life of the camera in half.

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The E-330 already does this when using the main sensor for the live view. Thus the engineering problems needed to make the 300 or the 500 do only this should have already been addressed.
Well, the E-330 has TWO live veiw modes...I already talked about Mode B, you can find out about Mode A at http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/e330.html so I won't do it here. I'll just say it might not be possible without a direct data path added from the imager to the screen, so it may need more than firmware...but again it would have to be the Mode B version of the live view.

Just a note about the Canon 20Da, it's designed for astronomic photography rather than standard photography.
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Old Oct 21, 2006, 10:31 PM   #9
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Actually, I did see your reference to 15,000 shutter cycles.

Where did you get this figure?

Is there a comment to that effect from Olympus?

On another thread a life of at least 100,000 cycles is mentioned with no actual upper limit.

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Old Oct 21, 2006, 11:22 PM   #10
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saob wrote:
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Actually, I did see your reference to 15,000 shutter cycles.

Where did you get this figure?

Is there a comment to that effect from Olympus?

On another thread a life of at least 100,000 cycles is mentioned with no actual upper limit.

saob
Don't get locked in on "shutter cycle life".If you look closer at what Mike said,he said the estimated life of an E-330 is 30,000 cycles, not 15,000. His speculation about 15,000 actuationswas IF you shot every image using the mirror lock up system CANON uses, so forget about the number of 15,000. Chances are, if you take care of an E-330it will last well over 30,000.

MTBF (Mean time between failure) as far as shutter lifegoes is not an exact science. Many cameras go well beyond cycles their shutters are supposed to operate at. Like-wise, some cameras die earlier because that's what happens when you build as many of one thing as a DSLR- the lemon factor.That's why they come with warranties. Look at how many electronicSLR's that were built in the 1970's still work today. I once saw a story about a Nikon F5's shutter lasting to over 1 million cycles when it was "rated" at 150,000.

Worry about things you can control, like composition andexposure. The camera is going to last however long it's going to last. The best you can do is take care of it. Don't subject it to drops or situations where it's subjected to excessive heat, cold ormoisture, and have fun using it. What's the use buying such a thing as a digital SLR if all you're going to do is worry about when it's going to stop working from the day you take it out of the box?


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