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Old Mar 24, 2007, 6:59 PM   #11
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hi john,

thank you, and you are correct,

i am not waiting for the shot, that is something

i am really working on! but it is easier said than done!

hahahahahahahaha



hi mark,

i agree! and thats what i'm trying todeceide.

and i understand what you are saying!

but for now i'm just learning,

but then is it easier to learn with

the better equipment. so should i try to the best with

what i have for now, and then as i understand more

make the move to what i need. here is my example,

: this one young man who played hockey with my son.

his dad is a big time doctor, all the money he could want,

so this kid has the best equipment, sticks, skates, gloves, etc.

probably had about 2000 in equipment, but he was a poor skater,

and never did understand the game!

the reason i purchased this particular camera was the price with 2

lenses. and as i learn more, i feel for the different areas of photography

you need certain lenses. i was trying to narrow it down to 2 lenses

to be able to get the results i want, in the areas i want to enjoy.

thank you, john

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Old Mar 24, 2007, 7:06 PM   #12
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It's a tough one as the best equipment is not going to make a poor photographer (not saying you are) good but as you get better you might find the equipment does hinder you. I don't know much about the low light results of the Olympus but when I'm shooting indoors with the f1.8 I'm often at ISO1250 or 1600 which is usable on Canon but not always with other brands.

My honest advice is to hold off on any expensive purchases (new lenses or switching brands) until you have had more practise. I didn't change until I had sold quite alot of photographs and my website was going well. Not saying you need to be selling your work rather you need to be happy with what you are doing so know the best way forwards. Don't forget you can always get good advice on here as there are plenty of us willing to help others learn (especially if you keep saying nice things about our work LOL).

Right time for me to get to bed as it's midnight and the clocks change tonight so an hour less in bed and I play in our churches band so need to be there early.

I keep meaning to ask, is that you on the bike, if so I'm impressed?!?!?!

Mark.

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Old Mar 24, 2007, 11:03 PM   #13
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hi mark,

first all thank you for help, insight, and knowledge!

believe me, i truly appreciate it very much! thats awesome you

play in the church band! way cool! and yes thats me on the bike in

my avatar. i may be old but i am not dead! hahahahahaha

and again, thank you!
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Old Mar 24, 2007, 11:05 PM   #14
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Don't read in too much into comments from any one person, especially one who is doesn't use the type of camera you use. To come on here and say you should buy a Canon to solve a problem is like an Olympus user going into the Canon forum and saying they should buy an Olympus because of the dust problems they're having.

Digital cameras (no matter what brand) will not make you a better photographer...the computer inside the camera doesn't make perfect pictures. People took excellent sports photos before digital cameras and even before autofocusing existed by learning how their camera works. You shouldn't rely totally on the automation. Personally I've done Indy racing photos with a fully manual camera...you just have to put in some time to learn your camera, after all photography is a skill you have to learn.

Yes, some digital cameras do have better strengths, but there's nothing stopping you from doing sports photography with the Olympus E-500...here's just some examples of what can be done:
E-1 skiing, http://www.olympus-esystem.jp/gallery_e/yakushi_h/
E-500 boat racing, http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=82

Suggest you do a search first via Google using terms like SPORTS PHOTOGRAPHY TUTORIAL. Then apply it to the Olympus.

p.s. Before anyone asks I've been an E-300 user for over 18 months.
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Old Mar 24, 2007, 11:41 PM   #15
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hi mike,

i understand, and those pics are incredible!

but even though i try, my pics don't really

look as sharp, as the ones in your link,

i really don't think it is the camera, i do believe

it is me. and thats why i take as many pics as i can,

and last couple of shoots, i have been working on

picking my shots, as opposed to just trying to get any

picture. i find myself thinking more about, positioning if possible,

and closer cropping, i have been reading alot, and trying to absorb as

much as possible, so when i get to shoot, i don't get too excited,

and miss good shots. i mainly was confused on how to get the camera to focus

where i want it to. and i really don't think mark came here to put down any brand

or anyone. i read alot of his posts, and i just felt he had alot of knowledge in this

area. (not that anyone else didn't). and you are correct in what you say.

but i am saving up to get a 35-100mm f2 because i do shoot alot of low

light indoor sports, so i know i need a very fast lens, but i would really

like to rent this lens but no one rents olympus, a lot of places rent the other brands.

i mean 2200 dollars is alot for something, i'm hopping will help me, without even

being able to see in person and try.
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 12:03 AM   #16
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John,

I was exactly in your shoes one year ago, just bought the E-500 w/ kit lenses. Knew nothing about photography and was shooting my son's soccer games with the 40-150mm in sports mode. Most of my shots were not worth keeping, lots of out of focus and over/under exposed pics.


for example this is one of the better ones,




I have learned through lots of practice over the last year, pretty much exactly as Mark and John have adviced.

I use Aperture Mode wide open, largest F-stop. Use matrix metering to determine exposure, as spot metering maybe thrown off by dark or even real light uniform colors.Increase the ISO as needed to keep the shutter speed up, I like to have at least 1/500s. Use single focus point, usually center.As to AF single or continous, it varies by situation andlens.

Practice a lot with the 40-150mm lens to get your technique down, then decide ifits worth the expense to upgrade your lens.

For daytime soccer the 50-200mm w/ the EC14 (1.4 teleconverter) works great. Gives you the35mm eq. of a 140-560mm f4.0-4.9. But not cheap, about $1200, or $825 for just the 50-200mm.

for example,







Now for night time or indoor sports is where itcan getreally expensive.As you mentioned the 35-100 f2.0makes for a great low light lens, but at $2200 it isa serious investment. For night time soccer it is just to short to reach across a field, but I do like to use it. It is possible to use the 50-200mm but the shutter speeds will be to slowresulting inlots of motion blur.

1600 ISO @ f2





Indoors is where it really shines.

800 ISO @ f2




A cheaper alternative to a more expsensive lens is a flash. I have seen lots of other photographers using a flash toaugment low light levels with a darker lens. I prefer ambiant light shooting and not all venues will allow flashes.
Olympus makes a couple of very good flashes the FL-36 and FL-50 for about $180 and $375. I believe there is some 3rd party flashes that work with the E500 for less but with fewer options.

Almost forgot, Post Processing of photos, can really help, turning an otherwise dull ordinary pic into something decent or even stunning.

Its late and I need to get up early, If I remember anything else I will post it later or if you have any Oly equipment specific questionsI will try to answer.

Remember practice, practice and more practice. I'm no expert, just another soccer dadwith stilla long way go on my own technique.

Oh, if you ever visitFlorida I wouldlet youtry out the 35-100, I too wish there was a way to try before having to buy.

Roy






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Old Mar 25, 2007, 2:49 AM   #17
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Mikefellh wrote:
Quote:
Don't read in too much into comments from any one person, especially one who is doesn't use the type of camera you use. To come on here and say you should buy a Canon to solve a problem is like an Olympus user going into the Canon forum and saying they should buy an Olympus because of the dust problems they're having.
Mike, just to clarify John posted a message in the sports forum asking me to comment/help out with this problem,and also if you read my posts properly in this thread and posts I've made previously made I think you will find that I'm pretty unbiased about camera type and that the photographer is the biggest part of the equation. You will also notice that I used to use Konica Minolta as at the time of moving from standard digital to dSLR I felt that the best but found it too limiting with future upgrades when I started getting into more and more sports.

Here is an example of the advice I gave here and as you notice it is purely giving options and speaking about my personal experience which John might not have considered. I personally don't care if he changes or not (I'm guessing you do) but would like him to get the most from his photography long term. The two lenses John mentions, especially the f2 zoom are very good (if expensive - I guessed the price slightly wrong as it is £1600 here so thought it would be $3000) and I would love Canon to make something similar as for all of us who shoot sports indoors we would buy it without question. As you can see talking about the Sigma options I clearly say that if they do launch more fast zoom glass then John would have some great options, it is just currently that the Olympus glass is expensive for hobby shooters (which most people who are here come under).
Quote:
Before you buy any new lenses I would ask yourself where do I want my shooting to go, which is exactly what I did about 5 months ago when I switched from Konica Minolta to Canon. I was shooting a lot of sports but the lenses just weren't there. Going with Canon (or Nikon) meant that there is a good selection of lenses available from both the camera manufacturer and also Sigma which I now have 4 lenses and one teleconverter from (10-20mm, 17-70mm, 70-200mm f2.8 and 120-300mm f2.8). The other 2 lenses I use are the Canon 50mm f1.8 and Canon 85mm f1.8. Sigma's current line up of 4/3 lenses is good but nothing in the zoom category of f2.8, however if these come out then you will have loads of better priced options.

I'm not saying you should change but before you spend $3000 on a lens look at what you could get with a system change and what it will give you long term. However if I was looking for fast glass with zoom indoors the Olympus is currently the best option as no one else has 35-100mm f2 (70-200mm equivalent for those not sure).
And what was my honest advice?
Quote:
My honest advice is to hold off on any expensive purchases (new lenses or switching brands) until you have had more practise. I didn't change until I had sold quite alot of photographs and my website was going well. Not saying you need to be selling your work rather you need to be happy with what you are doing so know the best way forwards. Don't forget you can always get good advice on here as there are plenty of us willing to help others learn (especially if you keep saying nice things about our work LOL).
Lastly would I have bothered in looking at the manaul and giving generic advise on how to go about setting the camera up to get better shots if I was wanting John to change brands. Let's all give good advice from our photography experience (99% of it is generic and not affected by brand) so people learn what can be done rather than wasting time arguing about camera types (apart from where a particual cameramight not do what someone needs)

Anyway I hope that clears it up!!!

Mark


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Old Mar 25, 2007, 2:55 PM   #18
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hi roy,

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"your pics are great!!!

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"and i have been using the 40-150

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"and i have a chance to practice every sunday

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"now that soccer season is under way here. thank you for

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"the help!

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"hi mark,

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"didn't mean for you to get jumped on

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"about giving me advice! your work and your advice is well

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"taken by me!! thank you and sorry about

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"the misunderstanding here!

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 4:56 PM   #19
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Mark and John have supplied excellent advise. I'd also hold off and find out how your photography develops before making big investments. I'm a user of the E500 and it suits my needs to a tee, but low light action is not its strong suit. Even though that 35-100 f2 is a SWEET lens and is a stop faster than anything out there, Oly currently gives that stop back in usuable ISO. If longer reach is needed, Oly is a stop slower.

Every system has its strong points. Olympus is the best for long reach in a package that is easy to carry.The 50-200 f2.8-3.5 can be easily carried with a 400mm reach in 35mm terms. Add the 1.4 teleconverter and the reach is increased to more than560mm f4.5 in 35mm equivalence. That combo is sharp as can be. Olympusalsois greatat putting some incredible zooms, such as the 35-100, that give incredible image quality. Roy posted some pics of what OLY glass can do. Those photos show the IQ I love w/Olympus. Even the 40-150 kit lens is really avery nice lens.

John, get used to the camera and use the 40-150 as you've been advised for daytime sports. Take the camera with you for the night games and indoor sports too. Rather than trying to catch the fast action, concentrate on candids such as some celebration after scoring and the coaches expression after something disapointing happens. You can still be a photographer. You just have to work within your limitations and the limitations of your system.

If the fast action is what you desire, and indoor and night setups are in the mix, you would be well advised to examine all your options before heavy investment. You will be spending large amounts of money if you want to play there. If Canon is your choice, so be it. If so, maybe we can go on a hike a few miles and try to get some wildlife pics. I'll carry my E500 and 50-200/1.4 combo around my neck. You'll probably need to carry yours on your back if your going to have an equal reach with equal brightness.




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Old Mar 25, 2007, 5:58 PM   #20
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John, I'm impressed at you on the bike..... did it take a long time to learn?

You have some good advice here and from your shots today it seems you have taken that on board and made great improvements already. Keep shooting and reviewing what you have done so you learn by self critique, also keep asking questions and as I always say the three golden rules to photography are practise, practise, practise.
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