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Old May 5, 2007, 2:05 PM   #11
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kenbalbari wrote:
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Or carry the same 200mm f2.8 and crop. With the larger sensor, you are using more of the lens. Since the resolution of the lens is more the limiting factor at those focal lengths than the pixel pitch of the sensor, you really aren't losing much by using the larger sensor and cropping instead.
That, perhaps, may be an option for a subject that fills the field of view of the lens. Not a good option, but an option. In reality, for that type of subject, take two more steps and you will have a better option.

For the times you can't do that, say wildlife or sports, where cropping may already be in play because you still aren't close enough, its a poor option. Cropping has its limits and that solution will push those limits in my experience.

Whenever you crop, as I see it, you are taking resolution, both sensor resolution and lens resolution, and tossing them out the window. Its a very poor solution to having a lens that has a more suitablereach to begin with.

To run with your theory to a logical extreme, take a 5D with the same lens and crop half the photo. You certainly have more starting resolution, you are using still "more?" of the lens. Should that also be an answer?
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Old May 5, 2007, 6:42 PM   #12
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Just a side note - this was Sean Reid's review of the E1 over at Luminous Landscape's:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...s/e1-2nd.shtml

This was the review that helped me decide that the E1 as my second choice after the DMC L1. A bit further down, is a list of updates that working pro's had wanted for the E1:

High ISO
Higher Resolution - 8/10MP
Low Light Focus
Speed/RAW buffer -
Lens Range - specifically primes and IS lenses.

I wonder how many of those pro's that Sean had spoken to for the article still use the E1/Olympus ? Whats puzzling about Oly is that they seemed to completely ignore the pro's that had taken up the E1 and who were waiting for the update. I'm not sure how they will be able to remove any stigma that may have left and entice those people back.

I'm looking forward to Sean's review of the E1P as he did have an up and coming review on the E1 replacement on his site for several months before the E1P was announced in Sept 2006, and then shortly after pulled that forth coming review from the site. I therefore think he would be able to give a good indication on whether Oly did the right thing by going back to the drawing board with the E1P and if the new cam measures up. I


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Old May 5, 2007, 10:10 PM   #13
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hi Harj

There would still be a few using E-1 though not many. It isnt uncommon for pro's not to have the latest gear, there are still a few using Digilux 2 for instance.

They may have bought into 5D and be working with it or something like that, another pro trait is to be slow selling off your gear, unless funding is required. Primary reason is you always need a backup.

Even for those buying in, you probably only need a body 2 lenses and a compatible flash to get going. Its money I know, but its not like getting into a bag full of primes and zooms in the film era.

It seems to me like all the Oly addicts I know (who are online) are getting ready to pull the trigger on 510, perhaps a little non trusting that P1 will appear soon, and not wanting to wait longer. Sensible marketing of P1 would be to release the detail on it at the same time as 510.

There are a lot of sales in upgrades for Oly gear, as most of it is getting old now. This will pump their fortunes a lot this year and there is no question that there is a regenerated interest in 4/3 because of this. I will budge my 300 to the back row this year, but Im thinking 510 offers what I need, Im just curious to see what P1 offers that 510 cant do. I would need some compelling reasons to go beyond 510, weatherproofing would be nice, but not essential, and AF works for me as it is, seems like a long way to go for a flip LCD.

Riley


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Old May 6, 2007, 8:26 AM   #14
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HarjTT wrote:
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A bit further down, is a list of updates that working pro's had wanted for the E1:

High ISO
Higher Resolution - 8/10MP
Low Light Focus
Speed/RAW buffer -
Lens Range - specifically primes and IS lenses.
I'm a bit surprised the list doesn't include the dual memory card feature that exists in the other OlyE-series bodies. That it was missing from the E-1 really disappointed me (I had found itgenuinely useful in my E-20), and I would think pros, presumably shooting large RAW files, would find it handy. I certainly do. Asone example, when shooting indoors with available light I have found that keeping a properly-exposed previous photo on the second memory card allows me to betterfigure out exposure settings for the current situationprior to the start of an event. I cancompare the "good" photo on the LCD to test shots in a new locationby flipping back and forth between them, whichis more reliable thanmerely relying on my interpretation of thenew test shots alone.(Hope that makes sense.)

Ted
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Old May 6, 2007, 10:13 AM   #15
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HarjTT wrote:
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Your right over the pro users - from what I can tell most have switched and unless Oly can really sweeten the pot or the E1P is such a revolutionary must have cam they're going to have a tough time getting them back,
But there are always new generations of pros who aren't tied to any specific system, and they're up for grabs, so if Oly succeeds at any point, they'll pull in some of the new pros at that point.


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Old May 6, 2007, 10:41 AM   #16
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The other thing that may come into play is workload. If you can cut a pro's workload, they may consider another system.

The big two often need PP to get the color and contrast correct, and Olympus has neededPP to deal with noise. If you could get over 95% of the photos straight from the camera with no PP, that would be attractive to a busy professional. Get the white balance right, shoot and store both a raw and a jpeg,deal with a few problem photos, and off to print. Home in time for dinner. They do that and they will get some of the old pros back.
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Old May 6, 2007, 11:06 AM   #17
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fldspringer wrote:
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The other thing that may come into play is workload. If you can cut a pro's workload, they may consider another system.

The big two often need PP to get the color and contrast correct, and Olympus has neededPP to deal with noise. If you could get over 95% of the photos straight from the camera with no PP, that would be attractive to a busy professional. Get the white balance right, shoot and store both a raw and a jpeg,deal with a few problem photos, and off to print. Home in time for dinner. They do that and they will get some of the old pros back.
indeed thats my MO, i use jpeg becuase they process faster

Riley
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Old May 6, 2007, 2:44 PM   #18
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As a long time photographer, one time Pro, sometime owner of many film cameras, from 35mm to 4x5 view, From Pentax, to Leica to Nikon to Topcon, I would like to throw in my two cents here.

The first 35 mm camera (as far as I know) was the leica rangefinder. It was developed so that it could use 35mm film developed for gun cameras used by the lufftwaffe. The format was dictated by the existing 35mm film, not by what was considered the best size for a finished photo of humans. That tradition was carried on ad-nauseum until Olympus had the balls to say enough is enough, we are no longer using 35mm film so why should we carry on a tradition that caters to the film industry and not to the Human Visual Experience?????

For their efforts they have been catching hell long enough. It is time for the rest of the digital SLR world to wake up.

As far as the Megapixel thing goes, several years ago it was well known that it took about 3 megapixels to produce a good quality 8x10 photo. Now people are saying that it takes 10. This is total, unmitigated, BS, propagated by the idiots selling digital cameras.

Simply stated, less, high quality, low noise sensors, are better than more noisy sensors any day of the week.

I am the proud owner of an E1, and it produces remarkable results at around 5 megapixels. The reason I bought it was its feel, and the images it produced, which were more like film than any other camera I looked at at the time.

Unfortunately, it looks like Oly is caving to the megapixel myth too.

JimA
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Old May 6, 2007, 3:01 PM   #19
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welcome to the forum Jim
in some ways there is truth in what you say
from Leica
Leitz saw in that camera the beginnings of a new format for amateur use
so began the 36x24mm frame

as to Mp
Oly are somewhat victims of the marketing myth
that said, that is driven by customer requirements not the other way around
they actually held out, at their cost, for some time before the 10Mp E-400. The lesson was, make a similar spec camera that works, or go broke

the newer E-410, shows how much work has been done on the sensors and the image engine. The nMOS sensor has a very low noise signature, and pulls off images at iso1600 that I cant do at 800. Assesing jpg alone, it seems the noise is quite low. With NR turned OFF, opened in Photoshop, Noise Ninja auto profile noise index is an amasing 35. The Canon XTi at iso1600 is 43.

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/st..._e410_p06l.jpg

Theres a sheet of jpg's here, its a japanese page and auto translated, so the wording will seem odd

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...25%2f6095.html

Riley
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