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Old May 12, 2007, 4:42 AM   #1
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LetsGoDigital http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/olym...10/review.html have their E410 review up on line. Looking at the samples - ISO800 looks very good and the ISO1600 sample shot is a big improvment and thats seriously good news. All shots I'm assumign were taken with the kit lenses and that can only mean better IQ with the HR and Top pro glass. One thing that I have noticed with the first images being from the E410 (esp over at dpreview) - with no NR being applied in cam the images have a lot more detail although a wee amount of noise and the files have a pretty similar to the quality of those from Leica's M8's Kodak CCD files. I think those sample shots have the default camera settings applied so NR is on. Personally I'd rather have the detail and take some noise rather than have the detail obliterated - then again I'm always shooting RAW so I don;t think it would be an issue.

Jeff at Dcresource was going to post his E410 review but has postponed it due to a possible faulty camera and there's been a couple of reports on the other forums stating similar camera issues.

On another point regarding lenses and thus IQ - I recently read post by someone who shoots with an E1 + 35-100F2 that the files at ISO400 look as if they were shot at ISO100 with a 14-54 or 50-200! That remark and some of his work with that combo made me really think about the 35-100F2.

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HarjTT

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Old May 13, 2007, 7:29 AM   #2
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HarjTT wrote:
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ISO800 looks very good and the ISO1600 sample shot is a big improvment and thats seriously good news.
Hi, Harj

For me that's indeed seriously good news especially if it also will apply to the E510. A lot of my photography is indoor available light and being able to shoot at ISO800 or 1600 would really be helpful. Attached is a photo taken with the E-510 and the Leica 14-50mm, at ISO1000 at 1/60 sec, lens wide open and the rig on a monopod. The original file does have more grain , ooops, noise (old habits die hard) that I'd like. Although I must say that it's still a better photo than I was ever able to get in the same conditions with my old Canon 35mm rig and ISO1600 film.

Ted


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Old May 13, 2007, 7:53 AM   #3
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Hi Ted

That looks pretty good indeed .. where did you find that shot. I's really like to see what the new cam;s can do with even faster glass than the 14-50 Leica D - say the 50mm f2 or Leica D 25mm f1.4/Sigma 30mm f1.4 or if you can afford it the 35-100f2/150f2 I'd guess that ISO800 could well look like ISO200/400 on my E1. I dont; mind the grain in the images as long as the detail there and I think it adds to an image.

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Old May 13, 2007, 8:47 AM   #4
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HarjTT wrote:
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Hi Ted

That looks pretty good indeed .. where did you find that shot. I's really like to see what the new cam;s can do with even faster glass than the 14-50 Leica D - say the 50mm f2 or Leica D 25mm f1.4/Sigma 30mm f1.4 or if you can afford it the 35-100f2/150f2 I'd guess that ISO800 could well look like ISO200/400 on my E1. I dont; mind the grain in the images as long as the detail there and I think it adds to an image.

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Hi, Harj

It's in our Buddhist Temple just outside of Washington DC (yes, some spiritual activites do occur in the DC area but you are forgiven if you didn't have that impression, looking from across the pond <grin>).

I've been taking photos like the one I posted, in that location for years. That's why I can say with considerable experience that for low-light indoor photography of moving subjects, digital at higher ISOs is an incredibly large improvement over equivalent-ISO film. Plus, digital really can deal with the color balance issues of dissimilar lighting sources (there is compact flourescent and halogen both in the photo above). And if you already own a computer, digital is way less expensive - I am very much a happy camper.

That room is a teaching room so it is full of people, which makes it difficult to use a fixed-focal-length lens. But you're correct that a fixed focal length lens will always be faster and less expensive than a zoom, so I'm giving serious consideration to one. My problem is I can't get close enough to use a 25mm without disturbing the attention of the people in the teaching. The photo above was at the 50mm fl of the Leica zoom and it's marginal at cropping the Lama. 75mm would be better but as you increase the fl,lens speed starts to get expensive as you know. That f2 ZD zoom is $2200 USD - ouch! It's just like the old joke the builders of racing cars like to tell: "Speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?"

Ted




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Old May 13, 2007, 4:21 PM   #5
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HarjTT wrote:
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I'd really like to see what the new cams can do with even faster glass...
The trade-off between speed with glass versus speed with in-camera noise processing at higher ISOs is an interesting one.

Astrophotographers know that the noise present in an image captured by a sensor is a function of sensor temperature, which is why CCD cameras used by astrophotographers (who need to take exposures at extremely low illumination levels) are specialized in that they include a Peltier cooling chip physically coupled to the CCD. (That chip is one that creates a temperature difference when current is applied to it, and is used for the "coolers" that you can get for automobiles that plug into the cigarette lighter outlet - they don't use conventional refrigeration, which would blow out the wiring and alternator in an automobile.)

Obviously, DSLR cameras are not going to include sensor cooling, which would require a power supply beyond what DSLR users are willing to carry (and are rather large- similar to the cooling on CPUs in modern computers<grin>) to achieve really low noise at high ISOs.But it's not clear to me that DSLR camera manufacturers won't be able to makemore progress in noise reduction through computing power within the capability of the in-body CPU. If they can do that, the higher ISO speed will always be less expensive than fasterglass. The future has some interesting prospects.

One other issue: in my low-light situation I have to wonder if it's worth it to purchase a Sigma f/1.X lens at a lower price but then have to stop it down to f/2to match the sharpness of a Leica or good Oly at f/2. Ifa Leica or Oly isn't all that much more expensive I'd rather spring for the better lens. Oly can definitely produce sharp glass - the PopPhoto Jume 2007 review of the ZD 35-100F2 seems to indicate that it is just as sharp wide open as stopped down some. That's pretty impressive.

Ted
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Old May 14, 2007, 11:25 AM   #6
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tkurkowski wrote:
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HarjTT wrote:
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ISO800 looks very good and the ISO1600 sample shot is a big improvment and thats seriously good news.
Attached is a photo taken with the E-510 and the Leica 14-50mm, at ISO1000 at 1/60 sec, lens wide open and the rig on a monopod.
WHERE THE HECK DID YOU GET AN E-510???


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Old May 14, 2007, 11:39 AM   #7
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hi Norm, Harj
no doubt some inscrutable Baltimore technique

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Old May 14, 2007, 12:23 PM   #8
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Norm in Fujino wrote:
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tkurkowski wrote:
WHERE THE HECK DID YOU GET AN E-510???

That was a typo - I have an E-500. I guess I was just thinking about the 510...

Ted
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