Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Olympus dSLR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 8, 2003, 11:30 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 259
Default E-1 thoughts?

Well I have been reading up on some other forums peoples throughts and views on the E1 and things seem to be for the most part very possitive, at least coming from the people who have actually had their hands on the camera. For someone like myself that doesn't have a single dollar invested in lenses for other SLR systems the 4/3 system is one I have been looking at fairly closely since I won't lose any investment in lenses from other cameras like some people would. All and all to me it looks like a very nice camera that offers almost everything I can think of that I would want....let alone need. If the price continues to drop towards its offical release I could see myself selling off my c750uz and all the gear I have bought for it and moving up to the digital slr world with a camera system like this.

Just wondering what everyone else thinks about it.... especially current Oly users and people that don't have money already invested in one slr system or another like Canon and Nikon.

For me its looking better and better with everything I read about it/hear about it. I kinda wish is wasn't limited to 5Mpixels and had something a little larger like 6-7, but that I guess will come in the future since Kodak in this little document talksabout the 4/3 sensor sees it scaling to 8, 10 and even 12Mpixels in the future for the 4/3 system. I hope both Kodak and Fugi come out with their 4/3 systems fairly soon as well to see what they have to offer compared to the E1. I also like reading that the lenses from all three manufactures should work on any of the cameras! An extremely nice feature to help future proof your investment.
tkmckay is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Sep 9, 2003, 5:46 AM   #2
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

It's an excellent camera on it's own in a perfect world... However there's a lot of competitions in the real world

Quote:
I also like reading that the lenses from all three manufactures should work on any of the cameras! An extremely nice feature to help future proof your investment.
Is this more of a wishful thinking, how many lenses are we talking about? After all Nikon has future proof their lenses for over decades now and with their new AF-S they are not going away...

BTW both 10Mp and 14Mp cameras exist now in both Canon and Nikon(Kodak) mounts why wait for the future? :lol:
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 9, 2003, 8:49 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1
Default E-1 thoughts

As an enthusiastic E-20 user, the Oly E-1 looks good to me too, at least at first look. But I do reserve judgement (maybe in favour of Canon) depending on whether Olympus has corrected some of the lesser attractive sides of the E-20.

For me to switch to the E-1 without a lot of pondering the decision I'd have to see the following improvements over the E-20:

-shorter startup time
-less lag in the screen refresh time (the E-20 is really jerky)
-much less noise in low-light at ISO 320
-higher effective usable ISO without excess noise
-a brighter viewfinder would be nice
-better buffer management. Once the E-20 buffer is full I have to wait for it to completely empty before being able to start shooting again. That is, of course when the best (potential) shot becomes the one that got away. Ideally, the part of the buffer that has already written to the card should be immediately available for more shooting.
-bigger capacity buffer (at least twice as much as the E-20)
-the possibility to use the screen and all adjustments while the camera is still writing to the buffer and while the buffer is writing to the card
-more accurate and faster auto-focus in low light.

Would appreciate anyone who actually uses the E-1 (should be possible soon!) to give their impressions here about these points. Especially if they've also used the E-10 or E-20 also.

There are a couple of features of the E-20 that I'm sorry to see disappear with the E-1.
The main one is the switch to proprietary batteries. In my travels I've found it very useful to be able to pick up Ni-H AA cells and chargers almost anywhere.
The second is the single card option. With the E-20 I've really liked to be able to shoot in either SM or CF and especially to be able to shoot on a 128Mo SM card and transfer in camera to my 1Go IBM. It's an on-the-spot backup system that has given me extra peace of mind many times.
MikeMeade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2003, 5:13 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
digcamfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,422
Default

Excellent summary, Mike...

E1 V. E20.

Thanks!!!
digcamfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 13, 2003, 6:13 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 259
Default Re: E-1 thoughts

I will put this first and formost to cover my butt. All figures where taken from various sources who would of cource have various testing methodes/subjects/conditions so its not a true, pure comparison. Also the fact that the E-1 retail version is still most likely a few weeks off has to be taken into consideration as the information for the E-1 is from a preview standpoint on the camera and may differ from the end product.

Quote:
-shorter startup time
E-20: 5.6sec according to this (512 MB SanDisk Ultra Compact Flash Type I card) E-1: 1.72sec according to this )(24x Lexar compact flash card of unknown size)
Quote:
-less lag in the screen refresh time (the E-20 is really jerky)
E-20: 1.8" 114,000 pixel TFT, can be tilted by 20 degrees down and 90 degrees up. E-1: 1.8-inch, low temperature, polysilicon, 134,000 pixel fixed possition TFT color LCD. I couldn't find a bit of information on the refresh rates for either models rear display so I have no clue if the E-1 is any faster, although being a 2 years newer in design I would sure hope that the refresh rate would be improved.
Quote:
-much less noise in low-light at ISO 320
We shall have to wait and see on this one for sure.
Quote:
-higher effective usable ISO without excess noise
Same situation as above, although something I read today I found raither interesting concerning all the preview test photos I have seen thus far from the E-1 in the various previews online. Please have a read through the second last paragraph in this preview of the camera. No noise suppression processing in any of the cameras so far previewed... This is nice to hear since in most comparitive previews with the E-1 against other dsrl cameras its noise levels start to become a fair bit worse to horrid once you move to 800iso and beyond. Hopefully with the noise suppression iso800 becomes 100% useable and 1600 and 3200 look good compared to the other cameras out there.
Quote:
-a brighter viewfinder would be nice
Well I think quotes like this come into play here:
it is a huge improvement over the E-10/E-20
it's a true 100% viewfinder, showing all of the final frame area
Quote:
-better buffer management. Once the E-20 buffer is full I have to wait for it to completely empty before being able to start shooting again. That is, of course when the best (potential) shot becomes the one that got away. Ideally, the part of the buffer that has already written to the card should be immediately available for more shooting.
E-20: 2.5 fps, 4 images E-1: 3 fps, 12 images reguardless of file type or resolution. Have a read here for the times it takes to take shots after filling the buffer up with the 12shots. From the looks of things after taking the 12shots the buffer holds you just have to wait a few seconds for a picture to clear out of teh buffer before you are aloud to take another!
Quote:
-bigger capacity buffer (at least twice as much as the E-20)
Please see above. Slightly faster shot-shot picture taking and 3x the buffer size and it doesn't matter if your taking jpeg, raw or tiff format pictures... it remains at 12 pictures dispite the vast file size difference.

If you take the file size into account the E-1 has quite a large buffer size. 5Mpixel jpegs would come in at about 2.5mb each while a 5mpixel tiff would be something like 15mb each. Times that size by the 12shot buffhr and you get 180mb's. Now im fairly sure the buffer isn't actually that large since chances are at least the first shot should already be transfered out of the buffer to the cameras memory card by the time the last picture is taken. I kinda wonder which would be a more marketable way to utilize a buffer of this sort of capacity; Saying you can take 12 pictures @ 3frames/sec reguardless of file format (size) or if Oly where to allow you to utilize the complete amount of buffer memory reguardless of picture format. That would mean if you can take 3f/s for 12 frames as tiff's you might be able to take 3f/s for 72 frames as jpeg's and still use up the same end amount of memory. Im sure its alot more difficult than I put it there of cource being that there is still alot of overhead that goes into the conversion in-camera to jpeg, seperate file alocation and other factors that would mean it wouldn't work out as simple math. Still however, taking 3f/s for even 36frames to use up 50% of the buffer volume thats used for 3f/s and 12frames when using tiff's would be killer. :shock:
Quote:
-the possibility to use the screen and all adjustments while the camera is still writing to the buffer and while the buffer is writing to the card
I don't think I have read anything in relation to this, so we might have to wait for the final, indepth reviews or some users hands on information.
Quote:
-more accurate and faster auto-focus in low light.
I'm not sure about the low light part, but the auto-focus performance listed here seems to be very impressive IMHO.

I to am a little disapointed with the proprietary battery solution. I can understand their reasoning, but would like to have seen an adapter cartridge like the E-20 already has so you could use 4 Nimh AA bateries as an alternative.

The single media type was also a little bit of a disappointment as well in my opinion. However, being that smart media is a dead technology at 128mb max size I know why its not there. I would have liked to have seen an xD media slot on the camera since Olympus is on of the largest companies pushing this form of media on the market with their new cameras. I was actually very shocked not to see an xDs slot on the camera given that it has already reached 512mb modual sizes and will scale to include larger offerings in the future and that every new camera Olympus has produced for some time now has offered it. I can understand its a little slower than the Compact Flash offerings, but for someone like myself who has already purchased a 256 and a 512mb xD card it would have been nice to see. It is however very nice to see both a connector for USB2 and Firewire on the camera for connectivity. Maybe I would finally have something to connect to one of the 9 firewire ports I have between my motherboard, video card and sound card. :P

I think my 3 largest complaints from reading the specs on the camera are as follows:
-propriety batteries
-no xD media slot
-no popup flash
And the three things that stand out for me as major plus':
-Fully sealed body design with the "Supersonic Wave Filter" would be great for someone like me who loves to hike in not the best of environmental conditions for electronic devices (read: rain, rivers, creeks, lakes, hiking trails)
-from the looks of things a killer feature set for the money since I won't loss anything because I don't have money invested in other lens systems.
-from the looks of it some great lens and other accessories for very reasonable prices given their features.
tkmckay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2003, 8:41 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1
Default

The E-1 is an over-priced, noisey, camera with a tiny sensor that has arrived on the "professional" scene too late (that is if you can call the E-1 a professional camera). It uses a lens mount that is incompatible with the famous zuiko (film) lenses .... that alone (until recently) automatically killed off this new camera as far as their thousands of loyal (film) OM system slr fans were concerned. And then ... to make things even worse .... a company called Kindai International (Japan) decided to produce an adapter that allowed the use of the "old" OM zuiko lenses on a Canon EOS body! .... and Olympus panicked! They are now about to market an adapter of their own ... in the vain hope that it will boost the sales of the E-1. As with the ill-fated (film) OM707 and OM101 cameras the E-1 system will die.
Zuiko-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 2003, 3:06 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 259
Default

Quote:
over-priced
Yea it is on the pricy side of things, but does offer alot of features that the other dslr cameras priced lower than it don't... also considering it just came out im sure we will see some price drops in the not so distance future.
Quote:
noisey
I have seen some photo's from actual end users with this camera that are very good even when using iso800 and higher settings. Besides, not all potential buyers have a need for high iso settings and low noise in them. I for one always shoot at iso100 or lower with my current camera.
Quote:
with a tiny sensor
Now if we are talking about the fact that its only5Mpixels compared to the 6Mpixel offerings from other manufactures then I don't think that is something worth even talking about. If your talking about the sensors size then lets have a bit of a chat on that one.

The E1 has an effective Mpixel count of 5.08 and a 17.4mm x 13.1mm sensor size for a total area of 227.97mm^2. This gives each mm^2 about 22284pixels.

Now lets compare this to some other (lower priced) cameras on the market shall we:

Canon 10D: 6.31MP, 22.7mm x 15.1mm sensor, 342.77mm^2, 18409pixels/mm^2
Nikon D-100: 6MP, 23.7mm x 15.6mm sensor, 369.72mm^2, 16228pixels/mm^2

So if you look at the above you are right, the E-1 has what could be called a small sensor for its MP rating compared to some of the other cameras on the market, but I don't think it can be called tiny. Unfortunately when you take into account the fact the E-1 used a full frame transfering CCD compared to almost everyone elses interline sensors things change. The FF-CCD can give the E-1 as much as 1.5x the actual active area for the sensor compared to others on the market. So even though some of the other offerings on the market that the E-1 will complete against may have a lower number of pixels/give area they might only be using 2/3 of the actual surface of there sensor....effectively making each actual recorded pixel area smaller than the E-1's. Another way to look at is effectively the E-1 has a sensor 1.5x its actual meassurements when compared to interline sensors which would put it at about 26.1mm x 19.65mm for a total area of 512.865mm^2 and a 9905pixel/mm^2 count. Maybe I didn't get the math totally right, but as you can see the type of sensor used might have alot more influence on the end results than its outside physical dementions. Whats the advantage of watering your lawn with a 2" garden hose with a wall thickness of 1/2" compared to a 1.5" hose with a 1/4" wall thickness? Both have the same end flow rates when everything else is equil. :P

When it all comes down to it, yes the E-1 has a smaller sized sensor, but its size is used much more effectively than most of the other dslr cameras on the market that the E-1 will complete with.
Quote:
that has arrived on the "professional" scene too late
Just a matter of opinion really. Since new technology and products always replace older ones can you really have a too late comment on any product like this? True that the E-1 has to start with a user base of 0 people and go from there unlike when say Canon or Nikon release a new DSLR camera that a decent number of people would have to just purchase the body for and use their existing lenses ad such. Everything has to start somewhere.

As for the rest of the post I can't comment other than the last part:
Quote:
the E-1 system will die
It always amazes me that no matter what forum I am apart of or for whatever section of technology its related to there are always people who are able to see the future. :roll:
tkmckay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 2003, 7:00 AM   #8
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

Quote:
Yea it is on the pricy side of things, but does offer alot of features that the other dslr cameras priced lower than it don't... also considering it just came out im sure we will see some price drops in the not so distance future.
Let's just name a few features that's lacking shall we?
o wide area 7 AF(10D) or 5 AF(D100) points instead of a tighly grouped 3 AF.
o Wireless (10D) multi-heads flash systems, as well as Flash Exposure Lock and modeling light function!
o Image Stabilization on an extended line of lenses (10D or D100).
... as you're aware prices are moving target and will drop across the line (including the competition) in the future!

Quote:
...Besides, not all potential buyers have a need for high iso settings and low noise in them. I for one always shoot at iso100 or lower with my current camera.
Let's take a look at ISO100.

Quote:
Now if we are talking about the fact that its only5Mpixels compared to the 6Mpixel offerings from other manufactures then I don't think that is something worth even talking about. If your talking about the sensors size then lets have a bit of a chat on that one.

The E1 has an effective Mpixel count of 5.08 and a 17.4mm x 13.1mm sensor size for a total area of 227.97mm^2. This gives each mm^2 about 22284pixels.
This is a totally flawed reasoning... What about smearing because of the tighter grouping? Should other cameras with even smaller sensor area be better?
o Minolta A1: 5.24Mp - 9.74mm x 7.96mm ^12.578 mm2, this gives 416272pixel/mm2 (with Image Stabilized progressive CCD nonetheless)
...or Oly own C-5050/5060, with an even smaller sensor be better still? Haven't we just forgot the highly desirable shallow DOF control that everyone misses as the sensor get smaller (with a smaller designed lens to match)? The 10D and D100 still have the DOF of a full frame SLR when regular lenses (ie unlike the 'design for digital' only EF-S or DX lenses) are used.

Quote:
Maybe I didn't get the math totally right, but as you can see the type of sensor used might have alot more influence on the end results than its outside physical dementions.
Let's examine the end results shall we: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/olympuse1/page15.asp.


... As for me I can't predict the future, but I can certainly see commercial successes especially when the stores can't keep the Digital Rebel from flying off the shelves, or getting the 10D off the backorder status! :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is not to say that you can always get the E1 because it's an Oly (just a like an R8 because it's a Leica... or whatever). The E1 is still an excellent camera but you can't definetly not justify it on features or value especially with time as better cameras are still yet to come... (with even lower $$$)
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 2003, 11:02 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
sjms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,735
Default

well while i was at photo+ yesterday i spent a little time with the E1 and a few NGS shooters. in short they've been using it for a few months now and like it. one said for the shots in NG this was an exellent camera and works fine. and going over his images posted there they worked for me too. its nice not to have a day job.

look it comes down to does it do the job? it does in my opinion. its comfortable to hold and shoot.

i also played with a D2H. i felt i was using a MAC 10 as for as FPS. this has an excellent chance of becoming THE sports camera. Canon will need to rethink the 1D. its lighter and to me has a better feel and again produces the images needed for that level of shooting. i was also told not to pray for a full frame nikon but possilbly a hi res ala D2"X"

for all the tech talk here- the camera will not make up for the shooter.

i even watched people arguing algorthyms with Phase one. lots of good stuff and lots of pointless stuff too.

this was the best show in 3 yrs.
sjms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 1, 2003, 3:18 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 259
Default

NHL, im not saying that the E-1 is a better camera than the others it will compete with....im just saying people should give it a little more than they are considering alot are just posting comments based upon pre-production first looks and reviews... much like yourself to a certain extent. You did list its short comings compared to the 10D and D100 but didn't post what it does have that those two cameras do not.

I don't know if I worded my sensor-sizing part wrong or it was understood incorrectly....I figure it was just worded wrong since I posted it earily this morning....very earily :P. I'm not trying to state that smaller sensors are better, what im saying is larger pixels are better. Whats the point of having a large sensor if the actual sensor type and manufacturing process used to make it doesn't make use of its actual size advantage? If you don't understand the difference between a FF-transfer CCD and an interline one then I would look it up. Then maybe you will see that the actual light sensing part of the cameras the E-1 will complete against might not have any advantage over the E-1 even though it uses a larger sensor size. Of cource less pixels/given area is better...meaning the actual pixels are larger....thats the advantage of a larger sensor over a small one and thats were your DOF comes in. There are more to CCD's and CMOS chips than just pixels and overall sensor size!
Quote:
Let's examine the end results shall we:
Again as the first page states, a first look/preview with an update.

There are alot of great offerings on the market in the DSLR field and im not stating which is better than another....cause personally I think they all have there place. Some do certain things (slightly) better than others.... its all about the end users requirements and which model fits into their needs.

Quote:
for all the tech talk here- the camera will not make up for the shooter.
sjms, thats what it all comes down to in the long run I guess. I have read it more than once.... a killer photo is 90% photographer, 10% equipment.....least I think that was the percentages.
tkmckay is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:02 AM.