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Old Dec 8, 2008, 10:18 PM   #21
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Zig, thanks for those links. You are always helpful. I'll be checking them out for sure.

Sarah, basically I shoot in Aperture Priority, always keeping to the lens's maximum, which on any of my current ones is f3.5. When shooting local shows where they don't mind, I'll attempt to use the built-in flash. I did just get my hands on a really old flash so I'll have to bring it to the next show but with bigger concerts, I'm not permitted to use flash.

I typically shoot at ISO 1600 but from time to time will attempt to bring it down to 800. One thing I noticed from switching the E500 for the E510 is the ISO increments available. I've looked through the settings and manual and don't see how I can increase the E510's ISO increments.

I just shot a couple of local shows and you can see the pictures at the following links;

http://www.offthedial.ca/?p=298

http://www.offthedial.ca/?p=319

Zig, you recommended Neat Image for noise reduction and it's worked fantastically. I'm just switching to Apple and discovered that Neat Image is only available as a Photoshop plug-in. Hopefully I'm missing something but I've been searching online quite extensively.
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Old Dec 8, 2008, 10:38 PM   #22
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cristo-

It is all a matter of style. At least for me, I would never recommend going to ISO 1600, if you can get by with ISO 800 (as I used in my photo sample) you will be more pleased with the photographic results.

But then perhaps capturing the mood is more important to you than the photographic quality. I see a lot of skewed photos and varied colors. Perhaps that is what you desire. tell me more about your style and your thought on photo/image quality. Here are more Sigma F1.4 30mm photos taken with a Nikon D-50.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Dec 9, 2008, 12:30 AM   #23
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cristovao12 wrote:
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I actually have an OM lens and mount. I did give it a try but didn't fare too well (images were white-washed). We just got a dump of snow so maybe I'll try a snow shot at night to see what I can manage. What settings to you suggest?
Select Aperture Priority on the camera. If you leave it on Program,the camerawill attempt to choose an aperture that cannot be selected, except manually.
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Old Dec 9, 2008, 12:49 AM   #24
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dnas-

Actually your approach, based on my experience, does not yeield very good results. However, I do urge you to post your resulting photos so that we can honestly and with a realistic eyeevaluate them. As you can see from my photo samples, dnas, my techniques do indeedwork in REAL TIME.

So it is up to you, dnas,postyour photo samples, and we will take a very good look at them. However, without any real photo samples from you, we will have to move onward and ignore your protestations. That is very fair. Show the goods and we will go from there. I am not afraid. Here again is another stage lighting example. Now my friend, dnas, it is time for you to post a photo example.

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Old Dec 9, 2008, 1:19 AM   #25
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Its time to get REAL folks-

This isNOT a theoretical discussion. This is REAL time exercise and we need your photo samples of no flash/existing light photo environments, as in a stage environment photograph samples. We want to see where you are and with very REAL photo samples.

Talk is one thing. Photo samples are another. I have not hesitated to post photo samples. So I do not think that it is unfair for me to ask you also to post photo samples.So folks let's get with it!Actual photos are what we now need.Now it is indeed up to you. With actual photo samples in hand, we can discuss and pefect our techniques. So let's see your photos, gang!

Sarah Joyce
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Old Dec 9, 2008, 5:45 AM   #26
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mtclimber wrote:
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dnas-

Actually your approach, based on my experience, does not yeield very good results. However, I do urge you to post your resulting photos so that we can honestly and with a realistic eyeevaluate them. As you can see from my photo samples, dnas, my techniques do indeedwork in REAL TIME.

So it is up to you, dnas,postyour photo samples, and we will take a very good look at them. However, without any real photo samples from you, we will have to move onward and ignore your protestations.
I have NOT been "PROTESTING" about ANYTHING, nor have I made any comment about anyone's photos!!! I made no criticism of your photos, or no value judgment, but conversely, you offer no proof that my approach "does not yield very good results"

cristivao12 asking for options about which lenses to use, based on not being able to buy any current in Olympus lenses faster than F2.0

This discussion is in fact a technical/theoretical discussion about the pros and cons of various lenses!!! I offered a good alternative option with the use of manual focus lenses with a 4/3 adapter.

cristivao12 asked me about using a manual lens and adapter that he already had, and I was answering his question. What is wrong with that?

You have not insisted that anyone ELSE in this discussion should post photos, so why is my opinion any less valid than anyone else who hasn't posted a photo??


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Old Dec 9, 2008, 10:04 AM   #27
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cristovao12 wrote:
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Zig, thanks for those links. You are always helpful. I'll be checking them out for sure.

Sarah, basically I shoot in Aperture Priority, always keeping to the lens's maximum, which on any of my current ones is f3.5. When shooting local shows where they don't mind, I'll attempt to use the built-in flash. I did just get my hands on a really old flash so I'll have to bring it to the next show but with bigger concerts, I'm not permitted to use flash.

I typically shoot at ISO 1600 but from time to time will attempt to bring it down to 800. One thing I noticed from switching the E500 for the E510 is the ISO increments available. I've looked through the settings and manual and don't see how I can increase the E510's ISO increments.

I just shot a couple of local shows and you can see the pictures at the following links;

http://www.offthedial.ca/?p=298

http://www.offthedial.ca/?p=319

Zig, you recommended Neat Image for noise reduction and it's worked fantastically. I'm just switching to Apple and discovered that Neat Image is only available as a Photoshop plug-in. Hopefully I'm missing something but I've been searching online quite extensively.
Good morning Christovao12,

Re: higher ISO increments above 1600. I'm not sure that increasing ISO above 1600 would do anything positive for you other than introducea lot more noise that probably wouldn't be eliminated with Neatimage. Getting a faster lens would be a better alternative.

You haven't mentioned if you shot in JPEG or RAW but you may want to give shooting in RAW a try as it would allow greater ability to control resolution and detail in post processing.

Re: Neatimage: I took a look at Neatimage's website andthey have a plug-in for Photoshop Elements 6.0 that available for MAC. If that's not an acceptable solution for you, you may want to look at NoiseNinga which is another noise removal software package used by a number of Oly forum members. Here is a link:

http://www.picturecode.com/

[align=left]Re: Flash use: When you use an external flash, you should look into using a diffuser as well. A diffuser will soften the lighting and reduce harsh glare. you can buy diffusers from Gary Fong or Demb diffuser products. You can also make a very effective diffuser from an old plastic isopropyl alcoholbottle.[/align]
[align=left]Re: latest concert images: I took a look at your latest concert images and must say that you've come a long way from the first images that you posted. To these "tired eyes", noise is much improved. [/align]
[align=left]Ido hope you take a look at the rock concert tutorial written by Steve Mirarchi as it addresses many of the questions relative to type of lens to use, how fast is fast, primes vs zooms etc. [/align]
[align=left]Best of all, it's written by a guy who actually makes his living by photographing rock concerts rather than someone like me, who just reads about them.[/align]
[align=left]http://photo.net/learn/concerts/mirarchi/concer_2.htm[/align]
[align=left]Zig[/align]



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Old Dec 9, 2008, 1:26 PM   #28
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I thought i'd chip in a comment..... can;t really add much as there's been some pretty good points made already.

Now if your not in a position of being able to use flash, esp off camera flash and you have good manual focus lenses (some of the CZ 1.4's, Leica summricon F2's, Minolta F1.4s etc) and the adapters then I would at least have a go to see what kind of results you can get at ISO800-1600. The CZ's and the leica's look excellent. From all accounts the Pana G1 is just superb with old manual focus lenses, how easy its going to be with the E510/520's I'm not sure - unless you get a Katz eye fitted.

At the same time if you have the $$$ then do look at the Sigma 30mm f.14, the 50mm 1.4, which I think is now available in 4/3 mount and finally the Leica D 25mm 1.4 - you'll get AF, no need for adapters and good to excelllent IQ from these lenses.

Cheers

Harj

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Old Dec 9, 2008, 2:14 PM   #29
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dnas-

I apologize for taking your comments incorrectly. I think all of us are commited to helping Cristo get the photos he needs.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Dec 9, 2008, 2:30 PM   #30
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OK, lots to respond to today...HA!

First, dnas and Sarah, I'm glad you're settling your discussion board differences. I didn't want to be the one who started the post that evolved into a war...HA!

Second, Sarah, my style for concert photos has always been off-kilter, skewed and even frantic in an effort to capture the nature of the shows I tend to cover; rock/alternative/punk, so that's why the photos appear that way. Not for a lack of being able to compose a shot nicely. I don't think that's what you were getting at but just wanted to clarify.

dnas, I did indeed try my Zuiko OM 50mm f1.4 last night and I found it very hard to manually focus. When I get home tonight, I'm going to try again and post the results for all to see. It should be noted though that the results of last night's test was far better than my initial attempt. BTW, I was indeed using Aperture priority when shooting with the OM lens.

Zig, first and foremost, thanks so much for the compliments on my photos compared to past shots you've seen of mine. I do have you to thank for encouraging me to use NeatImage as you know, I was reluctant. I trust you clicked on each image to see larger versions to really see if I'm doing the right thing in the application. It almost seems too easy and I do sometimes tweak the settings rather than use the default. I tried Noise Ninja back when you first suggested it but didn't really like it. I may have to try it again now that it's the only standalone application available for Mac. Either that or dish out $1000 for Photoshop, which I'm sure all of you would agree that money would be better spent on a lens. As far as the ISO increments, I wasn't referring to anything higher than 1600. On the E500, there were more choices between 800 and 1600 while on the E510, there are none.

HarjTT, thanks for chiming in. After taking dnas' suggestion to try the 50mm OM Zuiko, I found that for concerts I'll definitely need something with more range as 50mm is too close in such close quarters. With that and everyone elses comments and suggestions, I'm now leaning towards the Sigma 14-50mm f2.0 as it's around $500 and gives me more flexibility with the range. I just hope that f2.0 will be good enough to improve the lighting and quality of my concert shots and hopefully I don't get a Sigma dud. If so though, I'll just follow the advice of someone else on another thread to make sure I buy it from a retailer with a good reputation for warranty/repairs/exchanges.
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