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Old Feb 24, 2010, 11:35 AM   #1
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Default Something I never considered about my Smugmug account

Big Brother obviously is watching closely in some places..

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=34625084

I have to admit, not being a "professional" I rarely consider the printing option when I open a new folder in my Smugmug account, but after seeing this I wish the default setting was off. This guy didn't even know about the printing option so obviously would not have marked his prices up, meaning the only people who stood to profit from prints being ordered by anyone was Smugmug.
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 12:29 PM   #2
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I'm guessing, as suggested in that thread, it was likely a photographer with a contract that started all this. I'm all for contracts and such and applaud entrepreneurs trying to make money. Having said that, there is likely very little legal ground to enforce said contracts. The animals are not copyrighted. And while a zoo, being a private property, can set rules forbidding photography if they chose, I haven't seen any case law that states a zoo or other entity can allow you to take the pictures but not allow you to print or sell the images for non commercial purposes (i.e. print sales are editorial in nature ass opposed to advertisement).

I certainly understand smugmug's position - the desire of any company is to stay out of litigation which costs money whether you win or lose.

Now, it's a different animal when we talk major league sports for instance where images and uniforms are copyrighted. So trying to sell a photo you took of Derek Jeter at a Yankees game could absolutely get you sued if MLB and the NYY were so inclined.
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 1:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Greg Chappell View Post
I have to admit, not being a "professional" I rarely consider the printing option when I open a new folder in my Smugmug account, but after seeing this I wish the default setting was off. This guy didn't even know about the printing option so obviously would not have marked his prices up, meaning the only people who stood to profit from prints being ordered by anyone was Smugmug.
Thanks for posting this, Greg. I didn't know about the print setting either and have a gallery of the National Zoo and another of the U.S. Botanical Garden. I turned it off for all the galleries.

Ted
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 9:15 PM   #4
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Thanks for posting this, Greg. I didn't know about the print setting either and have a gallery of the National Zoo and another of the U.S. Botanical Garden. I turned it off for all the galleries.

Ted
Hey Guys: You can only sell and make a profit from selling photos on SmugMug when you have a Pro account. You don't earn any money from the print. You don't have to turn off the print setting. To quote Smugmug:
"...we only offer you the ability to set your own prices and to collect profit from your print sales for Pro subscribers only. If you'd like to start profiting from your print sales, you can upgrade to the pro account at any time via the Settings tab in your Control Panel..."
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 10:16 PM   #5
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Hey Guys: You can only sell and make a profit from selling photos on SmugMug when you have a Pro account. You don't earn any money from the print. You don't have to turn off the print setting. To quote Smugmug:

"...we only offer you the ability to set your own prices and to collect profit from your print sales for Pro subscribers only. If you'd like to start profiting from your print sales, you can upgrade to the pro account at any time via the Settings tab in your Control Panel..."
Exactly, but the guy on the Canon forum at DPReview that got that message from Smugmug and the LA Zoo does not own a pro account. The only people who stood to profit from someone buying prints of his images was Smugmug, so whether you have a pro account or not does not necessarily matter. There was, evidently, a person from the zoo scanning for folders at sites like Smugmug using keywords to find images of the zoo, then checking to see if the print option was on. If they found something, the user got an email to turn the print option off, pro account or not. I know of no way for anyone other than the owner of the account to know whether the account is a pro account or not, so no distinction was being made in this witch hunt.

Having shot a few weddings/reunions, I do have a pro account and have set a few folders up with prices where I would profit, but those folders are hidden with only those needing access and their families and friends having the ability to see them.

In my opinion, pro account or not, the default option Smugmug should use is to set the print option off. The user will know whether or not he wants to turn it on.

Last edited by Greg Chappell; Feb 24, 2010 at 10:28 PM.
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Old Feb 25, 2010, 6:23 AM   #6
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Exactly, but the guy on the Canon forum at DPReview that got that message from Smugmug and the LA Zoo does not own a pro account. The only people who stood to profit from someone buying prints of his images was Smugmug, so whether you have a pro account or not does not necessarily matter. There was, evidently, a person from the zoo scanning for folders at sites like Smugmug using keywords to find images of the zoo, then checking to see if the print option was on. If they found something, the user got an email to turn the print option off, pro account or not. I know of no way for anyone other than the owner of the account to know whether the account is a pro account or not, so no distinction was being made in this witch hunt.

Having shot a few weddings/reunions, I do have a pro account and have set a few folders up with prices where I would profit, but those folders are hidden with only those needing access and their families and friends having the ability to see them.

In my opinion, pro account or not, the default option Smugmug should use is to set the print option off. The user will know whether or not he wants to turn it on.
First, if this is publicly owned and I was part of that area, I'd be pissed. Have to support the place with taxes & donations just for being hassseled in return.

Second, I think Smugmug should ask everyone to label a gallery of two whth the key words "LA" and "Zoo", if it had anything to do with animals of not. There is only so much one person can accomplish.

Lastly, I think I'd find who is responsable for the witch hunt and shine the light on them. If its the zoo director or someone operating under them. "they ruined my trip to the zoo" in the paper would be bad publicity.

Certainly they have better things to do with their time. I'd make it a special point NOT to drop anything in a donation box at that zoo. Looks like that money isn't going to the animals, rather supporting some individual harrassing the visitors.

Sad state, it really is.

Now I have to figure which pics to label with the key words. I'm thinking some sparrow pics.

Greg

Last edited by fldspringer; Feb 25, 2010 at 6:29 AM.
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Old Feb 25, 2010, 6:40 AM   #7
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In my opinion, pro account or not, the default option Smugmug should use is to set the print option off. The user will know whether or not he wants to turn it on.
My opinion differs. Thats how Smugmug makes a buck. How else could they do what they do for that price.

If my family and I went to that zoo, they let me walk through the gate with a camera in hand, and I couldn't let the family members print pics off the site.....

Good pics of the zoo would likely be good advertising for someone planning a visit to the zoo. I doubt the zoo would offset the free advertising with any fees received from photogs.

Zoo is wrong, not Smugmug.

Greg
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Old Feb 25, 2010, 11:56 AM   #8
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I do like the idea of the sparrow pics. There might even be an image or two I can find that would be worthy of implanting with "LA Zoo" key words for them to chomp on.

I would just rather not be the reason for the next facility/venue to use in deciding to ban photography or the use of anything other than digicams or any lens longer than 4 inches. I enjoy taking my camera outfit everywhere and already have to avoid too many places based on existing camera bans and policies.
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Old Feb 25, 2010, 7:13 PM   #9
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Hi Guys

Greg, well spotted and something worth thinking about if your out and about taking pics and putting them up online. I think venue's like the zoo need to make it clear what you can and cannot do with the pics that you take on their premises. At the two Nikon Expo's that I've been to, your informed that you can't sell any images that you take during the event , esp of the models taking part in the workshops(no model release form, etc being signed). I do agree that the default option should be set to off for any gallery and then its up to you to enable it.

Cheers

Harj

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