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Old Sep 19, 2010, 12:17 AM   #11
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Everyone is putting the blame on Olympus for the "use of an old sensor"...but if Panasonic doesn't make a new sensor Olympus can't put it in their camera!
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 12:41 AM   #12
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Everyone is putting the blame on Olympus for the "use of an old sensor"...but if Panasonic doesn't make a new sensor Olympus can't put it in their camera!
First, as I mentioned, panasonic has made a new sensor, the one in the gh1.

Second, as I said before, it's not about blame. Let's say that not only panasonic didn't release a new sensor, but they decided not to allow olympus to use the gh1 sensor. So what? Blame and fault are important in the court of law, not in the market. At the end of the day it is still a 1700 camera with an old sensor which will likely only sell to those with a significant investment in SHG glass.

I've defended olympus many times in the past, as a quick look through my history in this forum would tell. In this case, its hard to do the same, regardless of who is to blame. The best intentions don't change what the camera is.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 6:19 AM   #13
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Why do you do that with your posts? It's annoying. Do you think any of us endorse the ads that go along with what we post? We all know the ads comes from Steve's Digicams, and we have to live with them in order to use this site...we don't need to be told!
Internet Brands bought out Seve's. Its their advertising. You may know where they come from. There are perhaps thousands of outsiders that visit daily that don't know.

Are you aware that if you are not signed in, there is an advertisment within the opening post? I'm a little sensitive to that. Highratingtech has the E-PL1 for $329.99 on the banner ad, complete with the 14-42 lens. Do you think its legit? I've seen some pretty cheezy ads within the post on a regular basis.

Sorry if your annoyed. Its only if I start a thread, so my disclaimer should be fairly easy to avoid. Thanks to the great people at Steve's for allowing me the lattitude.

I'm overly sensitive, but if I open a post, it will be there. Sorry your offended.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 6:44 AM   #14
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Everyone's blaming Olympus for not putting a new sensor in the E-5, but how can they put a new sensor in the E-5 when Panasonic hasn't developed one yet? That's right, the fault lies with Panasonic as they are the developer/manufacturer of the FourThirds sensors.

Why not use Panasonic's rumoured multi-spec sensor that's 18mp (16mp effective) that can do both orientations (portrait/landscape shooting) without the need to rotate the camera, that's supposed to be going into their GH2? Panasonic hasn't announced it yet, so it doesn't exist (it's all been rumours/leaked info). If Panasonic hasn't announced it, Olympus can't use it!
While I think the idea of such a sensor is outstanding, it would have needed a complete redo of the prism of the E-5. I could be wrong, but I don't think that would have happened. It would make the camera heavier and more expensive and more investment from Olympus at a time they are winding down on the optical finder. It would have been sweet, though.

That said, the E-PL1 sensor is not bad. The grain it produces is very fine, and ISO1600 is really quite good. Add a new processing engine and the lighter AA filter and this could be interesting. It isn't a full frame 35mm sensor and won't spec out like one, but I'm thankful the E-5 is an option.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 7:47 AM   #15
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Speaking of which, here one for you, Zig....a painting of Boston Harbor, circa 1850, I shot this morning while at the Amon Carter Museum in Fort Worth..
Hi Greg,
Thanks for thinking of me.

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Old Sep 19, 2010, 8:16 AM   #16
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Not just blackout when you shoot, but there's also a noticeable delay from the time you press the E-PL1's release in all the way to take the shot until the shot is actually made. Trying to time and capture moving subjects at a precise moment in time is a frustrating experience. My thoughts of investing in some of the micro lenses I have been thinking about has waned and I would imagine by the time the calendar changes from 2010 to 2011 I will have an E5 to go with my E30 and my E620 will be sold.

Its no small issue for me. Try taking a photo of something swaying in the wind, timing is everything. Waiting intently for that special look from the subject, only to see something quite different displayed after the shot is frustrating. I've grown to dislike the camera more and more. I'm not a point and shoot guy.

Cleaning up the E-PL1 makes me pause. Its such a sweet size with the 20mm attached. I see you are experiencing what I'll be missing with the 20mm f1.7 in the kit. It is a sweet little lens. I'll be missing some of the benefits of the kit, but I'll be doing without the aggravation too.

The bottom line for me is I had a grand invested and needed to spring for the EVF that is far from inexpensive. I am choosing to recoup what I can instead of investing more for a camera that doesn't fit my shooting style well. Its not a bad camera for some. Just not ideal for me.

BTW, you do great work with the camera.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 9:32 AM   #17
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Thanks, but I am going to be keeping the type shooting I do with it narrowed to a certain set of subjects or outtings where I know it's the only type camera allowable, and if that happens to be a sporting event like college or pro football, concentrate on non-sports-type shots one can have fun doing at those events.

$1,000 US gets you over half-way to an E5. That's close to the combined cost....actually, they are closer to $1,200... of picking up the two 14-150 and 9-18 micro lenses. That gets you (actually, me!) really close to an E5.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 11:07 AM   #18
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First, as I mentioned, panasonic has made a new sensor, the one in the gh1.

Second, as I said before, it's not about blame. Let's say that not only panasonic didn't release a new sensor, but they decided not to allow olympus to use the gh1 sensor. So what? Blame and fault are important in the court of law, not in the market. At the end of the day it is still a 1700 camera with an old sensor which will likely only sell to those with a significant investment in SHG glass.

I've defended olympus many times in the past, as a quick look through my history in this forum would tell. In this case, its hard to do the same, regardless of who is to blame. The best intentions don't change what the camera is.
As to sensor comparison, how about this: http://photofan.jp/camera/html/modul...forumpost72953

scroll to the bottom of the page.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 12:16 PM   #19
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As to sensor comparison, how about this: http://photofan.jp/camera/html/modul...forumpost72953

scroll to the bottom of the page.

Given the difference between the Epl-1 and teh E-5, and the difference in white balance between the gh1 and e-5, I think it's safe to say that those are straight out of cameras jpegs with a lot of settings on auto. Add to that the fact that they were shot at iso 200, outside on a day with less than ideal weather, from a significant distance on a tripod that is standing on grass, and I'd say that that test isn't significant at all is showing sensor differences.

Sure, the e-5 has greater detail. But is that a matter of better weather when the pic was taken? Better software processing? IS on while the gh1 doesn't have it in precisely the type of situation that it could make a big difference (even with a tripod, depending on the grass and wind conditions)?

I say this because in all tests Ive ever seen where everything is controlled for and they focus on raw (i.e., dxomark tests, dpreview tests), I've yet to see the same sensor in different cameras perform significantly differently (which is to be expected from raw, anyways).

Last edited by dlpin; Sep 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 2:46 PM   #20
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As a general purpose cam I'm sure the m43's are pretty sweet, esp if you have something like the Pana 20mm F1.7 on it. I've only had a play with the Gh1, GF1 and the Ep-1 in store so I can't really comment on what the performance would be like but for street photography I think they would do really well.

We have to see how both Pana/Oly now push the format - I'm sure that Pana are going to push the GH X series and aim it at the semipro market at least and Oly's unoffically stated that they want E4XX/5XX/6XX users to look at the Pen's for the future (no more affordable entery level DSLRS) and for everyone else the EXX/EX range. That might well change if the Gh2 is a semi-pro m43 camera with an improved EVF/AF system. Its a pity that Oly have the article about their camera strategy avialable only on the Japanese site.

http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...%2Fpage04.html

Regards the sensor, I can't see how Panasonic can actually be blamed unless they specifically stopped OLy from having accessing to the GH1 sensor, the modified GH1 sensor (to be used in the AG100) or the GH2's sensor. If they did then Pana deserve to get a heck of a lot of flack for doing so. If on the other hand, Pana had no problems providing OLy with the GH1 sensor at least and that Oly simply decided that to use the GH1 sensor was going to incurr additional R&D and manufacturing costs (new prism design for multi aspect ratio etc) and that they didn't have the resources to do so and that using the E30/EP-X as the basis for the E5 was more economical for them, then I'd clearly state the choice of sensor is Oly's. The E-5 in my book just does not look like a product that has spent the last 3 years in development. I personally wasn't looking for a revolutionary camera - 12Mp is fine enough for me, but a newer sensor (at least the Gh1's), improved version of the E30's AF system and if it was to have video 1080p should have been the minimum for a flaghship camera that was to last another 3 years. Its clear that the right now with the E-5, its M43 that is going to be driving the improvements (Sensors, Af systems, EVF, etc) and not the "flagship" as it was with the E1 and E3.

Harj



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Last edited by HarjTT; Sep 19, 2010 at 2:51 PM.
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