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Old Oct 13, 2010, 9:51 AM   #11
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Fascinating - the price is going down and no dealers have one yet.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 1:26 PM   #12
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Default Interview with Toshi Terada - future of 4/3

Maybe you have seen this interview - I hadn't.

http://www.biofos.com/esystem/q&a_terada.html

I found the answer to question 13 particularly interesting.

Ted
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 10:12 PM   #13
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Thanks for the link Ted. Very interesting.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 1:04 AM   #14
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Maybe you have seen this interview - I hadn't.

http://www.biofos.com/esystem/q&a_terada.html

I found the answer to question 13 particularly interesting.

Ted
I will say....after shooting with the E-PL1 and the VF-2 accessory eyelevel finder, bringing an E620 up to your eye is quite a depressing thing to do! I never thought the view through the E620's finder was that bad, but it is after using a finder as big and bright and easy to manually focus a lens as the VF-2.

At the same time, going from the E-PL1 and VF-2 to the E30, the gain in operational speed of the E30, and to be honest the E620 too, is still quite high, which is not to say that operational speed really is always needed depending on that type subjects you are shooting, but... I'm not sure what these guys at Olympus are smoking when they say the Pens at this point are good enough to really replace the E620's and E30's of the world other than they are saying it figuring if they say it enough they'll convince themselves at some point they are right....they aren't. It's actually a little offensive to think they might think we don't know better.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 6:44 AM   #15
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I will say....after shooting with the E-PL1 and the VF-2 accessory eyelevel finder, bringing an E620 up to your eye is quite a depressing thing to do! I never thought the view through the E620's finder was that bad, but it is after using a finder as big and bright and easy to manually focus a lens as the VF-2.

At the same time, going from the E-PL1 and VF-2 to the E30, the gain in operational speed of the E30, and to be honest the E620 too, is still quite high, which is not to say that operational speed really is always needed depending on that type subjects you are shooting, but... I'm not sure what these guys at Olympus are smoking when they say the Pens at this point are good enough to really replace the E620's and E30's of the world other than they are saying it figuring if they say it enough they'll convince themselves at some point they are right....they aren't. It's actually a little offensive to think they might think we don't know better.
Hi, Greg

I agree that pulling the plug on E-xx and E-xxx upgrades is way premature. But over at DPR, a South African named Fritz Solms* put the issue of EVFs and electronic shutters into perspective for me:


"Once the image quality and speed are at the level of an optical view finder, there are a range of advantages of EVFs:
  • can be used in very low light.
  • can zoom in for better focusing
  • can superimpose more useful exposure information like a histogram, show blow outs or black areas, ...
  • no hefty prism, no moving mirror, less noise
  • if not shooting in raw, show application of processing (art filters, tone curve adjustments, ...) in EVF
Similarly, there are a range of benefits of electronic shutters including
  • better life expectancies
  • easier application of bracketing for HDR processing (no mirror flips in between)
  • using multiple rapid exposures for image enhancements like noise reduction, resolution enhancement, dynamic range expansion, ...
And I am not really in the field. I would expect that both of these will have massive impact on what we can do with photography. It is, in my opinion, a revolution which will pull all other manufacturers with."

Ironically my E-20 has an option to use an electronic shutter.

Am I concerned that my 4/3 glass will AF well on a 43 body? Sure. Am I concerned that a lot of folks will abandon Oly while Oly works on E-xx and E-xxx upgrades? Sure. But I do think where Oly is going, is the future of non-P&S camera bodies. They have to do something - 99% of people who take pictures do so with a cell phone. And my understanding is that Nikon and Canon aren't doing too well financially in these times either.

Ted

* Curiously, Solms is also name of the city in Germany where Leica manufactures their M and S cameras and lenses.

Last edited by tkurkowski; Oct 14, 2010 at 7:31 AM.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 9:06 AM   #16
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Note this review was done with a pre-production model..



I found the review to be a little disappointing actually, no real meat to it at all.
Our review was of a full production model. That statement on the first page was from our hands-on preview, which was with a pre-production eval unit.

I'll be sure to make a note on that page in order to help with the confusion.

-billy
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 10:14 AM   #17
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Hi, Greg

I agree that pulling the plug on E-xx and E-xxx upgrades is way premature. But over at DPR, a South African named Fritz Solms* put the issue of EVFs and electronic shutters into perspective for me:



"Once the image quality and speed are at the level of an optical view finder.... .
The problem with Frtitz' statement starts right here. Everything else he said is fantasy until this one line becomes reality, and the reality is, this part is fantasy right now.

He might as well have said "once Olympus has a good sensor to work with, ISO 50,000 will be a piece of cake".

Many of those bulleted points already do work very well, like live histograms, extremely easy manual focusing and being able to see overexposed/blown and shadow detail, but it is going to take new technology to make real time electronic finders happen, which makes one wonder how long in reality it will actually take before they really get to this point, assuming they will, which I also question whether we should be or not....assuming, that is. It may well be they do not get the technology advanced to the point of taking that last step of making video finders truly real time. At least, not in our life time. With these new hybrid DSLR's Sony has introduced, they have taken electronic finders to their highest state of being that can be achieved with todays technology, and that still is not good enough to completely replace what has been in use and worked really, really well for over 50 years now.

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Old Oct 14, 2010, 12:01 PM   #18
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...it is going to take new technology to make real time electronic finders happen, which makes one wonder how long in reality it will actually take before they really get to this point, assuming they will, which I also question whether we should be or not....assuming, that is. It may well be they do not get the technology advanced to the point of taking that last step of making video finders truly real time. At least, not in our life time. With these new hybrid DSLR's Sony has introduced, they have taken electronic finders to their highest state of being that can be achieved with todays technology, and that still is not good enough to completely replace what has been in use and worked really, really well for over 50 years now.
I'm on your side here, really I am. I'm very skeptical of EVFs for high-end still cameras - I use them on pro video cams so I know what they can and can't do.

I used to have a large collection of vinyl records, that evolved into a pretty good collection of CDs. It has not evolved into a collection of MP3 files because I can hear the difference and I can't believe anyone thinks MP3s are OK for good music except for folks who have been using earbuds so long that they have hearing loss.

To me, the evolution from film to digital to EVF is the same pattern. The first step was great. The second step sucks unless EVFs get a lot faster. Where you and I may have a difference of opinion is that I do expect them to get better. (I don't expect MP3s to get better because the majority of folks buying music think they're fine as is.)

Ted

Last edited by tkurkowski; Oct 14, 2010 at 12:19 PM.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 1:24 PM   #19
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There's no doubt they will get better. I'm just not convinced they'll ever get good enough to be a total replacement.

The scenario I could easily see playing out is, 2-3 years from now, Olympus will make the pronouncement (the E5 gives them that much time) that electronic finders are good enough whether they really are or not....sort of like today with the lower models, and the new pro camera will have an EVF when the reality is, unless some real whiz-bang technology we know nothing about today elevates electronic finders to the point they actually are not only better, but truly equal, Olympus will be doing no more then than they are now, and that is, saying something that simply is not true/blowing smoke up our you-know-what.

Kind of like the leader of the old Soviet Union making a speech and expecting us, members of the politburo, to stand up and cheer wildly whether we know he's feeding us a line of bull or not.

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Old Oct 14, 2010, 5:48 PM   #20
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......unless some real whiz-bang technology we know nothing about today elevates electronic finders to the point they actually are not only better, but truly equal,.............
Hey guys, just an observation. The technology has already been here, it's just the cost involved. Just look at the military equipment. The FLIR and other electronic images provide an enhanced view to pilots much better than the unaided eye or optical sights, even in the dark of night. I for one, look forward to an EVF. As previously mentioned, so much great info can be overlayed on it, and the image is boosted in dark situations. I still like the EVF in my C8080, where I could overlay such things as the exact areas of over and underexposure before taking the shot, and it boosted the gain in darker scenes so you could even see better than an optical finder.

While our 4/3 choice may currently be limited to the E620, E30, & E5 for now, I do not believe that will be the end of the line. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me, but as a student of history, I would guess that Canikon are seriously sweating how much of a system technology lead that Oly may have. (And I'm not talking about the raw sensors, because sensors can easily be purchased from other suppliers.) If I were a stockholder of canikon, I would want to know what R&D they are dedicating to develop an EVF to replace the pentaprism.
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