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Old Sep 27, 2012, 4:28 PM   #1
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Default Non Oly FT - First play with Nikons D600

Yesterday evening I got to play with Nikons D600 for 15mins or so in a store. I wasn;t allowed to take any pics with it as it was their only copy so I have no idea what the IQ of it is and how it could compare to the E3/E5. My thoughts on Nikons new FF :

1. Size - I had been expecting it to be D700 size so slightly bigger than the E3 but its not and it could well be a tad bit smaller than the E3. It doesn't look big which was striking.

2. Ergonomics - In the hand not as nice as the E3 but its close very close. Much nicer than the D300 or Canons 5MKII or 3 that i got to play with.

3. Build quality - seemed to be very good and it does feel well built and nothing seemed to be flimsy on the camera. Not sure if its a weather sealed as the E's but if it is then thats great.

4. Weight - Much lighter than the D700 that I had a play with ages back. In fact it felt lighter than my E3 but I could be wrong.

5. Viewfinder - Very nice, large and crystal clear. I had a play with the an A77 and may be my eyesights got worse but I had trouble using the EVF on that camera where as the OVF was easy to use.

6. Price.. well it's only been out what a week and Nikon's dropped the price down by 250 .. so it was 1750.00 in store already. If it drops any further and Nikon have fixed their QC problems with the D800 then they will have trouble keeping up with supply at that price point.

7. Shutter - I was hoping to have seen how quiet the shutter was an how it compared to my E3 but there was no chance of that.

I came away thinking that we should have had an E-7 during photokina even more.. Nikon I think have hit a home run with the D600 ...

Cheers

Harj
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 9:18 PM   #2
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Ummmmm. I don't know Harj. I guess there is always the grass is greener syndrome. Apparently the camera is not weather-sealed like the E 3 and 5, and the photos are not better than the performance of the Sony sensor used in the OMD-EM5.

I have never been a fan of the full frame sensors which uses 35mm lens flange opening, as the sharp angle of light striking the sensor edge causes the edges of the photo to be softer than the center area. The light striking the extreme edge of sensor pixels is different from the way that 35mm film handled the light angle. Canikon took the easy way out, by using the 35mm lens flange size. For digital sensors they should have designed wider lens flange to reduce the angle of light striking the senor edges. The micro prisms that they add to the edge pixels to compensate for the angle will always be a compromise. Add in the higher cost of the lens for the Nikon to equal the Oly lens quality, and I have never really been tempted to go full frame. Nothing against Nikon, as at one time I shot Nikon a long time ago in the 35mm film era.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:24 AM   #3
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Hi Steve

I do agree about the "grass always looks greener" and for me FT suits me just fine as a system, esp with with the DOF, weather sealing, build quality and the 2x crop factor. However, if I was looking for a system right now the D600 and the likes of the K5, XPro are fair way ahead of the E5/E3. To hypothetically replace my existing FT gear, this is the pricing that the store was offering :

D600 - 1750.00
70-200 F2.8 VR II - 1699.00
28-70 F2.8 - 1200.00

Total = 4649.00

Now Nikon's also offering discount if you buy the lens + body so the price would be even less. If the body price for the D600 drops to 1500.00 then that would really throw the cat amongst the pigeons.. You could then get a D600 + 50mm F1.4G for the price of the EM5 + m43 75mm.

Now if I were to get an E-5 today and had to buy the lenses as new (the store that I bought my E3, 35-100f2, 14-54 no longer sells any ZD lenses but has the E5 body only) the FT setup would be

E5 - 1267.00
14-54 MKII 589.00
35-100f2 - 2,089.00

Total = 3945.00

I don;t think the 14-54 compares to the 24-70F2.8 Nikkor so heres an all SHG setup

E5 - 1267.00
14-35 F2 - 1,899.00
35-100f2 - 2,089.00
Total = 5255.0

How Oly UK can think about charging nearly 400 more for the 35-100 and then 600 more for the F2's ??

If you take the Pentax K5 MI or MII - the price really drops and the K5's pretty tempting right now and with a single 50mm prime its less than the price of the EM5 body only.

The EM5 doesn't interest me - its too small, the ergonomics arent right for me, I couldn;t really use the EVF but then again I found the A77's EVF difficult to use so I think I'm due an eye test. From first tests the two new F2.8's from Pana are not even close to the IQ of the SHG, but here;s the equiv setup...

With Panasonics 2,8;s
EM5 body only - 999.00
12-35 F2.8 - 859.00
35-100 F2.8 - 999.00

Total : 2857.00

With Olypmpus M43 Zukio

EM5 body only - 999.00
12mm F2 - 649.00
45mm F1.8 - 229.00
75mm F1.8 - 745.00
Total: 2622.00

So for a 12-75mm FL - the cost of those 3 lenses is 1623.00 and I think none of those are weather sealed and you need to pay extra for the hoods.. so another 100 at least on the price.

As there's no 100mm Zukio out yet you'd still have to budget for one of those, which I suspect if its an 100F2 is going to come in at least 1000 but the m43 setup is still saving a fairly big chunk of change saved compared to the E5 or D600 setup but without the weather sealing with zukios at least.

Update:

Parks camera still sells the Zds but nearly all have to be ordered in with a 5-7 day wait.

Last edited by HarjTT; Sep 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:53 AM   #4
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Yep, I understand what you are saying. I also am not interested in the Pen series except perhaps a small EPL-1 as a pocket camera. A used one is a terrific bargain right now. But the Pen line in general has emphasized prime lens, and their zooms are nowhere near as good as the 4/3 zooms. So I would not replace my 4/3 system with a m4/3. (I don't have a problem with the EVF, as my old C-8080 has an EVF and it is superior for nighttime shooting as the viewfinder image is gained up for better nighttime focus and compositing, and I'm sure the new EVFs are better than my old C8080. )

For practical purposes, I don't think there is a single Pen zoom that comes close to the performance of my 12-60 and my 50-200.

For practical purposed though, in looking at your figures, since you already have excellent glass, the practical comparison for your situation is just the price of a new or used E-5 body only vs. the cost of the D600 plus 2 lens; and to me I couldn't justify 4949 cost vs 1267. I don't believe my skill level would produce $3200 better results for me. I don't believe that I have truely mastered yet the capabilities of the E-3. But again, I'm just a amateur and don't depend on my camera to provide any income. It's just something I do for fun.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 11:05 AM   #5
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We all know how good FT as a system is .. the zooms are just top notch from SG all the way up to the SHGs. Whats really disappointing is knowing that were not going to see a new FT camera for the next possible 2 years and thats a may be. I know I still have a lot to learn from my E3 and at times, I think Ive been going backwards as I simply dont shoot as much as I used to and the two lens setup that must of us have you simply cant get unless you get the best that they offer. So I'm sticking with what I have for now but I think Oly really missed what could have been their last opportunity for FT and those HG/SHG lenses to really shine. Will I get an E5 - at that price nope.. I;d rather get a K5 + lens or get a 5D Mk2 for the same price and stick a cheap 50mm f1.8 on it and carry on using the E3 with the FT glass.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 11:19 AM   #6
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It will be interesting to see where the joint venture with Sony takes FT. It's mostly about the medical imaging, but digital cameras have been included in comments about the venture. In recent statements, Oly discussed the lenses and the need to provide professionals with a camera for those lenses but stressing they want it small. I wonder if we might not see a situation where Sony makes the bodies and Oly makes the lenses.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 11:19 AM   #7
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for reference:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/09/...ke-in-olympus/
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 5:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
I wonder if we might not see a situation where Sony makes the bodies and Oly makes the lenses.
What an interesting idea! We could do worse.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 7:28 AM   #9
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they is one sure thing when you change system it is a big hit on the pocket
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 12:05 PM   #10
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Looks like the D600's got some QC problems - dust bunnies or leaking oil onto the sensor and apparently this issue also effected the D7000. So far Nikon's not being too helpful in acknowledging that the new cam has a problem.
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