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Old Jun 27, 2003, 6:31 AM   #11
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As far as the lenses go, have you priced a 600mm f2.8 lately, ooops, sorry, no one makes one, but that 's what the Oly 300 f2.8 is equivilent to. And the 600 f4 Canon is over $7K at B & H. The Nikon is about the same.
Ooopsy again... Have you checked the 400 f2.8 that Canon makes? That's what this lens, ie a 600mm f2.8 with both IS and USM, is equivalent to with the 1.6x factor on the 10D and is priced less than the Oly's @ B+H! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The 'D' in most new lenses stands for distance integration, ie the distance info that is fed from the lenses to the camera for exposure computation together with the camera sensors which was actually introduced for film cameras initially. Only Nikon has produced special designed lens for digital cameras since they (obviously Oly hasn't) have figured out the above benefit of the 1.x factor! ie they only need to compensate for the wide angle which all non-full frame dSLRs are lacking...

I agree with Marokero as well that the E-1 is going to be a fine camera, but it's not going to hold a candle to a 1Ds with less than half the # of pixels! Ditto theses people have too much money invested in their equipments to consider changing let alone downgrade to another system with limited selection of lenses. Beside they can all switch to a film body when in a bind, which obviously the 4/3 system can't!

Bottom line --> They need to do some homeworks on pricing! At around $1000 for the body then it could be a hit, otherwise people would just wait and see who else is signing on to this bandwagon... It'll be longer than this fall then to see what other choice of lenses or cheaper alternative from 3rd party... or may be a followup E-2?
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Old Jun 27, 2003, 6:24 PM   #12
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Folks - Lot of good info. I also note that Olympus says they plan to bring out a "consumer" E1 SLR in 2004 - wonder what that means?...There was also something in the release that sounds like the E-1 lenses will have quick focusing to perhaps compensate for lense shake???? Or am I just reading in that into the info. Guess we'll know soon.
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Old Jul 16, 2003, 8:56 PM   #13
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NHL said:
"Ooopsy again... Have you checked the 400 f2.8 that Canon makes? That's what this lens, ie a 600mm f2.8 with both IS and USM, is equivalent to with the 1.6x factor on the 10D and is priced less than the Oly's @ B+H! :lol: :lol: :lol: "

I said:
"Hmmm ... So I did. Here's what I found:

* Canon 400/2.8 USA at B&H: $6499.00 + drop-in polarizer (since the Zuiko inludes one) $167.00. TOTAL = $6666.00.
* Zuiko Digital 300/2.8 street price: who knows?

Now, to compare MSRP:

Canon = $11,250.00 :roll:
Zuiko = $ 7,999.00

Ooopsy - Zuiko $3000 cheaper!! 8)


Further comparisons of the lenses:

Focal len eff: Zuiko: 600/2.8 ; Canon: 580/2.8 (at 1.6x)
Weight: Zuiko: 7.2 pounds; Canon: 11.8pounds :shock:
Closest focus: Zuiko: 2.2 meters; Canon: 3.1 meters
Length of lens: Zuiko: 281 mm; Canon: 349 mm
IS/USM: Zuiko: No/No?; :?: Canon: Yes/Yes
Performance: Zuiko: We'll see; :?: Canon: Exc!


Summary:
We don't yet know what the street price will be for the Zuiko 300/2.8. Let's assume it'll hold MSRP at B&H. I doubt it, but just for grins: for $1333 more you give up IS/USM :? . But, you also give up over 4 1/2 pounds of weight , several inches in length and gain 20mm of focal length . Performance of the ZD 300 remains to be seen. If it performs at the level of the Canon and it's AF motors are appx as good as USM (we don't really know that yet either) then I'd say the two lenses compare pretty well and the ZD may be worth $1333 more to some people for weight alone. Then again, what if the B&H price is discountedd from MSRP???
Who's laughing now??? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: "
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Old Jul 16, 2003, 11:30 PM   #14
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I'm still laughing... The market for $3k+ lens are so limited and specialized, that I'll be happy for anyone who can afford either one... really! :lol:

Most consumers will be shopping @ less stratospheric level, and where the summary should have been (Can you count the Zuiko on one hand?):
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?o...20SLR%20Lenses

Most people don't look at one/two lenses, they invest in a system and upgrade path... Where's the Olympus wireless TTL flash (and it's flash group ratio) for example? so it's not just IS that you're giving up, BTW USM also allows you to overide the AF without having to switch over to manual AF first and eerie quiet @ that! I rather invest that $1333 difference in another upgraded newer body in a few months wouldn't you?
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Old Jul 17, 2003, 12:42 AM   #15
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I am currently saving for my first dslr, and currently I am leaning towards the canon 10d. The e-1 appears to be a decent camera, but they are only coming out with a hand full of lenses and it may be a while before the after market lense manufacturers decide that lenses for the e mount are a profitable market. Ideally, one would be able to buy the best lenses for their slrs, but for a consumer like me who is stretching his budget for a 1.5-2 grand camera, a 3 grand lense is out of the question. Also, this format is too new in my opinion to warrant any sort of large investment in lenses, even if I could afford them all. I feel this way especially because if olympus couldn't keep up in the 35mm slr market and has relatively recently left that market altogether, how are they going to succeed in this market that is basically controlled by camera companies with large user bases and tons of lenses and other accessories? I personally think it was a mistake to market the flagship model in this series as a professional camera since a. professionals will probably already have lenses for one mount and won't wish to switch and b. consumers are more likely to go into the slr market with no lenses, or at least few enough to make switching costs negligible. In conclusion, it is far too early to tell at this time whether or not the e-1 will be a sound investment. If the oly does boast superior image quality, then the 4/3 system may be the next big thing, but if they can't get enough lenses out for the right price, then this may go the way of the betamax system. I personally plan to watch and wait and buy the best camera.
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Old Jul 17, 2003, 4:03 PM   #16
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Geez, I just researched and wrote a reply to NHL and ardvark50, but I guess I took too long and when I went to post - poof - it was gone.

Here's a summary:

Compare lenses E-1 vs Canon to jump-start system. These days zooms are so good, they're the norm so let's look:

To get into the E-1 system, need body ($2199 MSRP) and lens. Let's take the one certain to be the most popular: 14-54 F/2.8-3.5 Price $599.00 For this price u get a lens designed to work with the body, one with weather sealing, built-in distortion-correction information and ED glass etc.
Olympus total: $2798.00 MSRP

To get into Canon digital (assume either new person w/o gear or film jumper w/o good glass) The 10D probly best choice right now: $1599.00 Lenses to match the ZD?
'L' lenses - need 2. Cheapest pair: 17-40 F/4 + 24-70 F/2.8 Cost: $799+1349.
Canon total: $3747.00 Street.
(Note - this Canon gear will be about TWICE as heavy as the Oly system).
I'll mention you could get two 'El Cheap-O' Canon lenses with similar range for about $678, but they'd be slower, not weather sealed, not designed for digital (well, the Canon L's aren't either but I gotta figure they'll be better at the edges than these consumer lenses) and would just plain cheapen the body and IMHO, only an uniformed tyro would do that.

Nikon? I'll leave that as an exercise.

Point is, look at the E-1 4/3 system without bias and it is a formidable competitor you gotta admit.
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Old Jul 17, 2003, 4:58 PM   #17
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This is an interesting thread. Many good points on both sides. I have just a couple of comments:

Re: camera weight. I prefer a fairly heavy camera for most picture-takng. I like the stability and reduction in camera shake, especially when shooting at max zoom. IS would probably eliminate, or at least reduce the need for such a heavy cam. My E20 is a tank...but when I went to Africa in April and was shooting wildlife at max zoom from a Land Rover, I put the battery pack on for stability! Actually, I prefer the way the E20 handles with the batter pack and the portrait grip. It's very well balanced and VERY stable. But, I would like IS in my next digital SLR.

When I need to travel light, I carry my old CP 950. I particularly like the way those old CPs fold flat. But I don't understand people who want the little credit card sized cams. What kind of optics can you get in something that small? And how can you expect to hold such a little thing without introducing camera shake?

Just some thoughts....
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Old Jul 17, 2003, 10:17 PM   #18
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Hi Everyone - I've been talking to an Olympus rep on line and he advises that Olympus plans to introduce 4 new lenses every 6 months for the new E-1 system and that the consumer model (scheduled sometime in 2004) will feature less expensive body AND lenses. As far as weight, I hike at high altitude into many of the places where I like to shoot and I would really like a lighter SDSLR than is currently available. I hope to shoot out of a Range Rover on safari some day , but for now I hoof it a lot. I carry my Oly C-730 in a front Domke Giraffe pack (I know I've mentioned this before, sorry), which is comfortable when I am also wearing a hydration/back pack. It's also a good street rig with pockets for batteries, cards, filters and a wide angle lens - it's what I take in my carry-on when I travel by air. My monpod doubles as a hiking stick (I don't take it on the plane....). As you can tell, portability and weather proofing are very important to me which is my main interest in the E-1. I should mention that I do have people buying my prints on a regular basis, much to my surprise, so the image quality I am getting with a minor tweak or two in PS Elements is very good. And finally, as far as being able to switch back and forth between film and digital per the Canon set-up, I no longer have any interest in shooting film. Why would I want to give up total control from shot to print?? I'm waiting for October when the E-1 is scheduled to debut so we can all be really confused........john
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Old Jul 17, 2003, 10:37 PM   #19
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I hope to shoot out of a Range Rover on safari some day , but for now I hoof it a lot.
John,
That was my first experience with Land Rover game drives. I also did walking safaris, which I prefer, but you just can't cover enough territory on foot to see much. I'm currently trying to find a ride/walk arrangement, where the vehicle gets you into the game area, and then you close in on foot. My wife specializes in Africa tourism, and she is working on the problem.
The E20 is a great camera for wildlife photography. I really like the manual optical zoom and TTL viewfinder, plus the fast focus time.
If you would like to see some of my shots go to:
http://community.webshots.com/user/bigelowrs
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Old Jul 18, 2003, 9:54 AM   #20
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I'll mention you could get two 'El Cheap-O' Canon lenses with similar range for about $678, but they'd be slower, not weather sealed, not designed for digital (well, the Canon L's aren't either but I gotta figure they'll be better at the edges than these consumer lenses) and would just plain cheapen the body and IMHO, only an uniformed tyro would do that.
What's so digital about a lens except that it's designed for 4/3 with a smaller sensor/mount (and we all know what this'll do to the DOF)? For over a decade now all lenses exchange digital data as far as aperture, focal lenght, distances as well as the lens transfer function with their respective bodies from the Minolta to the Nikon. In fact the Canon EF mount is totally digital electronic devoid of any mechanical coupling from day one!

I must be one of your uniformed tyro (& cheapskate) then: http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/v...849&highlight=
If you notice they were all shot in hot, humid, sandy, windy and salty elements! None of them are from any 'L', in fact one of the picture is not even from a Canon but a much lighter 17-35mm f2.8 nonetheless... :lol:
In fact for the total price that was quoted I even bought myself a 3rd lens (and an external 550EX flash): a Sigma EX70-200 f/2.8 HSM which is also 1/2 the weight of the 'L' with known DOF characteristic (since the 10D sensor is only slighly larger than the 4/3 CCD but retains the full DOF of a 35mm frame). Freedom of choice is the other benefit of the more popular lens mount, and not just a one tricked up horse @ a ponyshow...


Quote:
Point is, look at the E-1 4/3 system without bias and it is a formidable competitor you gotta admit.
I agree, MINUS:

1. IS/VR - Image Stabilization
2. USM/HSM - Utrasonic, instantaneous silent drive with manual overide
3. and now DO - ie Lighter smaller optics
4. 5 wide AF focus vs 3 tightly group AF focus points
5. Wireless Flash - wireless ratio group as well as wireless flash priority (and now even on the Nikon D2!)

Theses are formidable features set that you guys got to admit giving up with the E1 as well and stop brushing them aside. Let's be fair here and not just focus on just weight which may or may not be important to some people over a system pick or resolved by judiscious lens choices! (and I'm not even counting the extra 20%+ megapixels advantage of the 10D(or D100 ) over the E1 when doing RAW capture for that ultimate picture quality)
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