Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Olympus

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Feb 12, 2004, 8:23 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 66
Default

Here are a couple snapped from my C740.

http://members.aol.com/sharemypics/16sec100iso.jpg
http://members.aol.com/sharemypics/16sec400iso.jpg

To answer the previous poster's question, this experiment is to determine the C7x0's susceptibility to noise. Also, NR is only active at speeds slower than 1sec (C740) and doubles the time needed to take pictures.

Personally the amount of noise doesn't bother me, but the uneven distribution of it does. Also the noise becomes more noticeable the warmer the camera is. If it's warm enough, the upper left corner can get pretty bright.

KuoH
KuoH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2004, 9:11 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkusmier
No way to know - he could have taken the pic in TIFF, then converted before posting (I didn't check for EXIF info, but I doubt any is there). I suppose high compression rates could make noise appear more noticeable...

--------------------------------------------------------
TIFF still has noticeable noise on my shots.
----------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, this is all academic. Enable NR - it will completely eliminate hot pixels. It's been my experience that a SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER of the complaints made about the C-750 come from users who haven't even read the manual or learned about the camera's features.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
................I am not one of them. I resent the implication . I have read the manual. I notice less sharpness if NR is used. I was trying to find out if other cameras were better, even if my interest WAS academic. Which it is not. I now know that my camera is average and there is no point in trying to better it as things stand.

Appreciate the info. Guess I did not appreciate the lecture. Sorry.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As regards noise in general, I personally have a very low tolerance for it, but haven't noticed any noise in the C-750 at ISO 50. It's barely noticeable at ISO 100. Acceptable at ISO 200, though given my aforementioned intolerance of noise, I rarely use ISO 200.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
......At what exposure times, though? I defintely used ISO 50 for an evening shot, and was suroprised that tere were noise spots. Longish exposure.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Objectionable at ISO 400, which I never use. That said, image noise is inevitable in consumer digicams. Want noiseless pics at ISO 800? Get ready to shell out the $ for a dSLR. I've seen elevated noise at ISO 400 in every type 1/1.8 and 1/2.5 ccd I've looked at. The noise levels in the C-750's 1/2.5 is average. Think this is bad? Better stick to film, because you'll lose sleep over the noise produced by the 8Mp 2/3 type ccd's found in the new Sony's, Canons and Olys. Was hoping manufacturers were going to start making consumer digicams w/ low-noise 4/3 and APS sized sensors, but instead they're trying to cram as many pixels as possible into smallish sensors. Sadly, most consumers are under the simplistic (and mistaken) impression that more pixels = better image quality. Sure, 6 Mp are better than 4 - but not at the expense of reduced dynamic range and higher image noise.
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2004, 9:13 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default Re: Try this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayp
In the cam menu choose the "pixel mapping" function and run it. This is supposed to eliminate any "dead pixels" which are causing this problem.
I tried that. It seemed to make little difference. :-<

Thanks for the suggestion.
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2004, 9:16 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default

[quote="Norm in Fujino"]I took a couple of lenscap photos, one on the automatic (night scene) mode, and the other on manual, 10 seconds, F4 or so.

The automatic mode produced a photo of only about 99k, and I couldn't discern any "stars" in it at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would have been onoy about a second's exposure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the photo is so big, I don't feel like wasting space by uploading it to my website, but if you want to see it, I'll e-mail it to you. Let me know your address if you'd like it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would seem that it's not my camera, but the sensor suze/MPi rating, causing the problem. Yours would be roughly the same, as it's also 4MPi and the same size (probably the same sensor)

So thanks, but no apprent need.
___-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Later update Okay, I just tried pixel mapping, but the photograph I took afterwards looks just about the same (still some "stars" at high magnification).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. I am not sure what it _does_ fix, but it ain't this <G>

Thanks again
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2004, 9:18 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkusmier
Just curious, why aren't you using NR on your long exposure shots?
I was trying to avoid it because it softens the picture a bit. Until I found out whether the problem was mine, or the model or generic, I was checkiong it out.
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2004, 9:20 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkusmier
Here's a link to one C750 owner's lenscap test results:

http://clientes.netvisao.pt/alexd/test.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
That site was dead for me :-<
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

EXIF: 16s, ISO 200, F3.2, NR off.

I've seen other results, and performed the same test on my own C750. Enable Noise Reduction and try it again - you'll get a perfectly black picture.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. It does work. BUt unfortunately alters the picture to soften it a bit IMO. I was trying to fond out if it could be avoided. But thank you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2004, 9:22 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default

Thanks to all for the replies about this.

I am a little disappointed. As was commented, thae makers appear to be trying to shove more and more pixels in at the cost of noise.

However, there would be a good reason for this. The bigger the sensor, the bigger the lenses needed, for both light gaterhing and magnification. Have you seen the prices of the DSLR lenses?
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2004, 12:11 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 17
Default I guess we ALL have to face the facts.......

Olympus F'ed us. This camerea sucks !!!!!! Oly. just tried to pack too many features into a NON-SLR!!!! Then tried to pass it off as the next best thing . WRONG!!! I wish I never heard of Olympus after owning this CRAP!!!!
jayp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2004, 11:46 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 162
Default

Nickagain, you suggested that you had heard grumblings about stuck pixels, etc. on the C-750; I have read such posts in other forums, and in my experience, many of these grumblings came from inexperienced users with unrealistic expectations and little understanding of their camera or its settings. I wasn't implying that YOU were one of those people. I meant to say that you should take these grumblings with a grain of salt.

True, NR does soften the pic somewhat - although, in my opinion, it doesn't significantly impair image quality, even on 8x10 prints w/ borders. You can increase in-camera sharpening to offset some of the softening resulting from NR.

This explains our differing opinions - I ALWAYS enable NR on exposures longer than 2-3 seconds, regardless of ISO. As a result, I never see hot pixels, and noise is only apparent in longer exposures at ISO 200 or higher. Yes, the C750 is "average," but understand that there's not much of a difference between consumer digicams re: noise levels. Disable the noise reduction feature on any consumer digicam and you're going to see noise in long exposures at ISO 50.

Jayp, I don't know what to tell you. There are MANY consumer digicams out there with as many, or nearly as many, manual controls as the C-750. There's nothing unique about Oly in this regard. I did alot of research before I settled on the C-750 - I wanted 4Mp, a long-zoom lens, and superior image quality. I was aware of the poor lowlight performance, but was willing to accept this as a trade-off for the camera's outdoor/daylight performance, which I (and the overwhelming majority of users and reviewers) think is excellent. IMO, the C750's color is better than comparable Nikons or Canons. If you're complaining about the noise, that's a problem inherent in all consumer digicams and it's old news. If you're disaapoitned with the camera's poor AF performance in low light - this was noted in every review I read. I wish the camera was a more capable performer in certain conditions, but I wasn't surprised by its limitations because I was aware of them when I bought my camera.

There's no such thing as a single-camera solution amongst consumer digicams. If you want that, you'll need a dSLR.
jkusmier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2004, 5:40 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 98
Default Re: I guess we ALL have to face the facts.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayp
Olympus F'ed us. This camerea sucks !!!!!! Oly. just tried to pack too many features into a NON-SLR!!!! Then tried to pass it off as the next best thing . WRONG!!! I wish I never heard of Olympus after owning this CRAP!!!!
I feel that if Oly are having us on, then all didgicam makers are. That mey well be true! <F>

I have to disagree with you. Unless there is somethong wrong with your camera, it is not crap at all.

Have you tried other cameras in the same range to compare?

It is "the next best thing" at a price way below the best! I wish I could justify a DSLR, and then a 10X zoom lens for it!

Apart from my unhappiness about the noise (which I was asking about so that I could see if it _was_ an oly problem) I think that the camera is amazing.

I agree that I was a bit overwhelmed by the features at first and that some of them are not as easily or rapidly reached as they might be. But I compared image quality with a couple of similar cameras when I bought and the Oly was very good.

I have had some amazing results, and some of the pictures I have taken have blown me away with their quality, even when blown up way up.
Nickagain is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:09 PM.