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-   -   [Recovered Thread: 70985] (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/panasonic-leica-29/%5Brecovered-thread-70985%5D-69145/)

tiger98 Oct 15, 2005 8:15 PM

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Here are two samples of what the FZ30 12 power zoom can do. The first picture has two areas circled and marked. The next two pictures show full zoom on those marked areas. The #1 area is Bank One Ball Park in south Phoenix approximately 15 miles from camera. #2 is a tennis court(s) approximately 3 to 4 miles from point of picture.

tiger98 Oct 15, 2005 8:16 PM

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This is the ball park...

tiger98 Oct 15, 2005 8:17 PM

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and the tennis courts. Note that reducing the pictures for posting has lost a lot of detail and quality.

spy Oct 15, 2005 9:11 PM

Excellent clarity! I look forward to coming there in Nov. Where's the best place to buy the FZ30 in Pheonix and what price are they there?

squirl033 Oct 15, 2005 10:06 PM

that lens is something, ain't it? Panasonic really came up with a winner when they came out with the 12x Leica zoom.i know i've gotten spoiled by the power of that lens on my FZ20, and i could never go back to a camera withlesser optics. i really do hope that no matter what other modes Panasonic brings out, or what sensor ir DSP chipthey use, they keep putting that lens in front of it!

tiger98 Oct 16, 2005 12:27 AM

Spy, Usually Circuit City and Fry's Electronics carry the Panasonic line in this area. I bought my FZ20 from Circuit City, but haven't seen the FZ30 advertised there yet! I purchased my FZ30 from Amazon on line. I think it was under $600 at that time. Enjoy your visit, you'll love it! Jim

tiger98 Oct 16, 2005 12:30 AM

You've got that right squirl ! That lens and their 'IS' sure makes impossible shots possible! Jim

armadilloshield Oct 16, 2005 1:44 AM

Tiger, thanks for your sample, very clear shots.
Do u add any digital zoom as well? if not, what do you think if you use the digital zoom as well? just curious :roll:

KENNETHD Oct 16, 2005 3:14 AM

Yessssss! See, this is a real nice example of what I have been liking about the FZ 30. (part of it anyway) But, Tiger, is this the full zoom w/8MP? Or did you bump it higher using the 5MP or 3 MP? If it is just the 12X zoom with 8 MP, folks should know that had you used the 5 or 3 MP settings you would have increased the zoom to 19 and 23 X respectively. Well done in any case! Fine example of a really sweet lense. Best regards,

KennethD

armadilloshield Oct 16, 2005 3:56 AM

Especially photo #2, looks very clear from 4 or 5 milesdistance :cool:

squirl033 Oct 16, 2005 11:07 AM

armadilloshield wrote:
Quote:

Especially photo #2, looks very clear from 4 or 5 milesdistance :cool:
the Leica 12x lens is one of the best i've seen for clarity at extended zoom ranges. here's anotherexample of this lens's power. the first shotof Mt. St. Helens was taken at1x. the second shot, of just the lava dome inside thecrater, was shot at 12x with no digital zoom. both were taken from the observatory at Johnston Ridge,over 4miles away from the crater.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...3/sthelens.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...vadome12x1.jpg

this lens is simply incredible. it's the main reason i bought the FZ20, and it has enabled me to get shots i could never otherwise manage.

tiger98 Oct 16, 2005 12:06 PM

Great shots squirl ! Gotta love that lens! Jim

tiger98 Oct 16, 2005 12:10 PM

Armadilloshield, I never use the digital zoom because it degrades the picture. I find if I need more than 12x it's better to drop the megapixels down to 3 and then I can get 19x of optical zoom. Jim

After posting the above message I realized I had never even tried the Digital Zoom on the FZ30, only the FZ20. So I tested the 2x digital zoom and was surprised at how well the picture looked. It wasn't 11x14" quality but wasn't bad enough to warrant my statement above, "I never use the digital zoom because it degrades the picture". So I guess I would have to say that in some circumstances one might be able to use it! Jim

corcoj Oct 16, 2005 10:31 PM

KENNETHD wrote:
Quote:

"...folks should know that had you used the 5 or 3 MP settings you would have increased the zoom to 19 and 23 X respectively." KennethD
Explain, please.:? This results in increase in optical zoom?? And does the same apply if one were to use a lower mp setting on the fz20?



tiger98 Oct 16, 2005 11:12 PM

Kenneth, Sorry I didn't see your question earlier. The above pictures were shot at full 12x zoom in the 8mp mode. Thanks for your comments. Jim

tiger98 Oct 16, 2005 11:15 PM

corcoj, Yes dropping the FZ30's megapixel format to either 5 or 3 does result in an increase in the optical zoom. At 5mp the optical zoom is 15x and at 3mp the optical zoom is increased to 19x. This feature is not available on the FZ20. Jim

squirl033 Oct 16, 2005 11:26 PM

it's not truly an increase in optical zoom... the lens doesn't gain any power. as i understand it, it's done by using the same actual optical magnification but only utilizing the center 5MP or 3MP of the sensor. when the image is viewed, it appears larger... much the same as the way digital zoom works. the difference isthat digital zoom crops away part of the image and the enlarges what's left. the FZ30 retains the full original image, but uses less of the sensor to record it. it's all "fudging", in that it doesn't actually increase the optical magnification of the lens, but it produces much the same effect, andit's easier to call it that when describing it to customers who don't know how digital cameras work.

hamiltonarts Oct 17, 2005 11:10 AM

Thats almost close enough to see the Diamondbacks getting beat.

LoveLife Oct 17, 2005 12:16 PM

tiger98 wrote:

And itcan stillbe improved with PP.
Quote:

This is the ball park...
http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/40382768-L-1.jpg

tiger98 Oct 17, 2005 6:09 PM

Good Job LoveLife ! Now if you could figure out a way for the Diamondbacks to win ! :-) Jim

KENNETHD Oct 17, 2005 6:49 PM

squirl033 wrote:
Quote:

it's not truly an increase in optical zoom... the lens doesn't gain any power. as i understand it, it's done by using the same actual optical magnification but only utilizing the center 5MP or 3MP of the sensor. when the image is viewed, it appears larger... much the same as the way digital zoom works. the difference isthat digital zoom crops away part of the image and the enlarges what's left. the FZ30 retains the full original image, but uses less of the sensor to record it. it's all "fudging", in that it doesn't actually increase the optical magnification of the lens, but it produces much the same effect, andit's easier to call it that when describing it to customers who don't know how digital cameras work.
I'm not sure it can be compared to a genuine "digital" zoom, as when the area of the sensor is reduced this would effectively increase the focal L E N G T H of the lense, thereby giving the optical zoom more punch. In my opinion this is an optical feature.

Kd

armadilloshield Oct 17, 2005 7:03 PM

Tiger and Squirl, thanks for the useful info. Those picture are awesome :D
Do you encounter any noise for the higher ISO? I read many review said more noise for FZ30 :roll:

tiger98 Oct 17, 2005 8:55 PM

Armadilloshield, I have yet to have any problem with noise! It maybe because most of the pictures I've taken are at iso 80 or 100. There are also several programs available which will effectively clean up noise if it is a problem. Jim

armadilloshield Oct 17, 2005 9:15 PM

Thanks for the info again. Because I'm still considering to buy FZ30 or FZ20 http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...smiley-017.gif

tiger98 Oct 17, 2005 11:37 PM

armadilloshield, I think you would regret a decision to buy the FZ20 with the FZ30 being available for only a little more in cost. The difference in picture quality and features is well worth the extra money! Jim

armadilloshield Oct 18, 2005 12:32 AM

Tiger, thanks for your suggestion, will consider to get FZ30 :|

squirl033 Oct 18, 2005 5:48 PM

tiger98 wrote:
Quote:

armadilloshield, I think you would regret a decision to buy the FZ20 with the FZ30 being available for only a little more in cost. The difference in picture quality and features is well worth the extra money! Jim
the FZ30 does offer some definite advantages in handling over the FZ20, but from what i've seen and read, if you want better image quality (not to be confused with simply a bigger image), you won't get it with the '30. i certainly haven't seen any qualitative difference between images shot with the '30 and pictures taken with my FZ20. i long ago decided to hang onto my FZ20 and wait for the next generation of the FZ line. for my needs, the few real pluses the FZ30 offers aren't worth spending $550 or morefor a new camera when the one i have takes photos that are just as good. besides, it'll probably only be a year or so before they bring outthe FZ40 or whatever, and i'm hoping by then that Panasonic (or someone) will have addressed what are to me the real issues with the FZ series, such as noise, limited dynamic range and ISO performance, vewfinders that "freeze" when the camera is recording, etc.

the FZ20 can now be had for under $400 if you shop around. it's stilla very capable camera, and though it's "only" 5MP instead of 8, that's a small consideration unless you plan to cropa lotand still try to print at 11x14 size.the FZ30doeshavesome nice features, such as the zoom ring, pivoting LCD and the higher resolution EVF, butthosearemostly just handling conveniences,and are relatively unimportant from a purely image quality standpoint; i really don't believe it offersany significant improvement over the FZ20 in that regard. it appears to be just as noisy, and actuallyreduces your low-light capability bya full f-stopat12x zoom.

seems to methe choice is this: FZ30 with lots of new gimmicks and gadgets, and 3more MP (which you may or may not need), for $550-$600, or the FZ20, with fewer horns and whistles but with comparable image quality (albeit smaller), for about $200 less. i would recommend finding a dealer that has both. try them out, get a feel for them, see which one does the things you really want most, and then buy that one. you won't go badly wrong with either one. if you decide you don't need 8MP and a pivoting LCD and a zoom ring on the lens, there's really no need to spend the extra money on the FZ30. if those things are important to you, by all means, go for it. just don't expect the '30 to take appreciably better pictures.





tiger98 Oct 18, 2005 6:23 PM

Squirl, While I agreed with some of your points regarding the purchase of the FZ30 over the FZ20. I think Armadilloshield's situation is a little different as he has neither the 20 or the 30 and is trying to decide between the two. I agree that the 20 takes a great picture and is a great camera, but there are new features with the 30 that should make a first time buyer better satisfied with his or her's purchase. After using and evaluating both cameras and the pictures they produce I would not be happy using the FZ20 again! That doesn't take anything away from the FZ20, it's just that I have found the 30 to be a much easier camera to use and I feel the picture quality is better, if only by a little bit. When the FZ40 comes around I'm sure I'll be looking forward to getting one if it only has a few new and better features and takes only a slightly better picture. I just feel if a prospective buyer is looking to buy a Panasonic, and doesn't currently have one, then they would be wiser to get the newest model otherwise they might as well buy a FZ15 which they could get for better price than even a FZ20 and it also takes a great picture ! The final decision will be up to armadilloshield and I hope he reads everything we both, and others, have said. I respect your opinion and understand that you, (as I), are only trying to give him enough information from both sides of the coin for him to make an intelligent decision. That's what makes this country great we can all have different cameras and differences of opinion. :lol: Respectfully, Jim

armadilloshield Oct 18, 2005 6:56 PM

Squirl033 & Tiger98, thanks for both of your info and suggestion.
I will consider carefully b4 make final purchase.
Just for a hobby and I'm not a pro at all:-)
I also can wait a little longer maybe end of this year or early next year to see what is market like http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...con/search.gif
Another thing, after compared the camera, looks like FZ5 maybe more suitable for me, as the size is smaller http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...n/thinking.gif

tiger98 Oct 18, 2005 8:50 PM

Your welcome armadilloshield. I'm sure you'll like any of the cameras in the FZ line! And your right the FZ5 is much more compact. Jim

squirl033 Oct 18, 2005 10:55 PM

point taken, Jim... for someone who doesn't already have an FZ, the '30 is probably as good a starting point as any - unless price is a serious constraint. the FZ30 does have lots of new features that enhance handling, if not image quality, and i certainly didn't buy an FZ10 when the '20 came out! but then, the '20 and the '10 were virtually identical, while the '30 is different from all the rest of the FZ line. i suppose if i didn't already have the FZ20, i'd be giving the FZ30 some serious thought... along with the Fuji S9000, which from what i hear offers VERY low noise, extended ISO range(80-1600)and 9MP resolution. plus it runs on 4 AA batteries, not expensiveproprietary power cells. downside? it's "only" 10.7x optical zoom, equal to a 28-300mm lens (still no slouch!), and it has no IS that i can tell. nonetheless, with the low noise and extended ISO range, it might well be able to do things even the FZ30 can't...and for about $625, it's competitive with the FZ30... (oops... is it heresy to mention another brand on the Panasonic board? :blah:)

like you said, though, that's one of the great things about this forum... lots of people with lots of experience and lots of information and ideas to share. i've learned a TON of stuff about digital photography here, not just about Panasonics, and i can't think of a better place for someone who wants to find out more about the cameras and how to use them... like you said, i just want to make sure Armadilloshield - or anyone else reading this -has enough info to make a wise choice...

oh, armadilloshield - the FZ5 is an excellent choice if you're looking for a nice, small, compact cam that will produce very nice images. doesn't have the horns and whistles of its bigger brothers, but it's a great choice for a smaller camera...

cheers!

Rocky





tiger98 Oct 18, 2005 11:10 PM

Squirl, Interesting that you mentioned Fuji S9000, (now were both in trouble!) I just read a review on it today and though it's touted as being a good low light camera, the reviewer stated because it has to raise the iso around 800 to get a low light picture, (with no flash), the picture is only useable if it's printed to 4x6 or smaller! The same applies to it's anti blurring feature, (it has no IS) again the iso is cranked up and again the picture is ok at 4x6". The reveiwer also stated that the picture is quite soft, probably to cover the noise produced by the higher iso setting! (his words not mine). I'll see if I can find the review and post the link for you. Jim

squirl033 Oct 18, 2005 11:29 PM

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i hadn't heard that about the S9000 requiring such high ISO numbers to get shots in low light... though like any camera, you can probably set the ISO manually, use a tripod, and get good images without a flash... that's certainly what i'd be doing, though if i HAD to shoot handheld, i'd rather have high ISO numbers and get the shot than use a lower sensitivity and miss it. but the FZ20 (and the '30, too, i'm sure) can take some verygood low light shots even without using high ISO settings... here's an example. this shot was takeat dusk, about 20 minutes after the sun had completely set, at 1/4 second, using a monopod and no flash, at ISO 200 (ISO was setto "auto")...the subject isn't the best, but it does show how clear and sharp an image the FZ20 can produce, even in lousy light, if you use it right...



tiger98 Oct 18, 2005 11:35 PM

You would never know that you took the picture in low light! Came out great! I sent you a pm with the S9000 review link in it. I'll add it here also so your sure to get it. Jim

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/

KENNETHD Oct 19, 2005 1:00 AM

Speaking of various cameras the Samsung 815 is now in the stores here. 15X optical zoom, but high end is the same as Panasonics 12X...I realize it's N O T a Panasonic, but thought I'd toss that out if you still hadn't made up your mind, there Armadillo...best regards,

KennethD

armadilloshield Oct 19, 2005 1:20 AM

Getting more interesting now :-)
Some how I still like Panasonic, maybe because the Mega OIS, and in term of price, is kind of reasonable. Just check few days ago FZ5 selling at U$395 (In Singapore).

armadilloshield Oct 19, 2005 1:20 AM

Getting more interesting now :-)
Some how I still like Panasonic, maybe because the Mega OIS, and in term of price, is kind of reasonable. Just check few days ago FZ5 selling at U$395 (In Singapore).

KENNETHD Oct 19, 2005 11:49 PM

armadilloshield wrote:
Quote:

Getting more interesting now :-)
Some how I still like Panasonic, maybe because the Mega OIS, and in term of price, is kind of reasonable. Just check few days ago FZ5 selling at U$395 (In Singapore).
Roger that...Me too. I did raise my eyebrows and read a bit and a bit more about the samsung tho. Pretty intresting reading, but I, like you, really like the whole package in the P'sonics FZ 30. I would never go back to a prosumer without stabilization after the results I have had with the 30. That one feature alone has opened up a whole new field for me.

Kd

armadilloshield Oct 20, 2005 7:07 PM

tiger98 wrote:
Quote:

and the tennis courts. Note that reducing the pictures for posting has lost a lot of detail and quality.
One more thing tiger98, do u take #2 picture with tripod or just OIS do wonder? What is the shutterspeed? 1/2000? :O

tiger98 Oct 20, 2005 7:21 PM

Armadilloshield, All three pictures were taken in the P program mode. Not sure what the shutter speed was but it was probably around 1/50 (?). Jim


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