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-   -   [Recovered Thread: 86975] (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/panasonic-leica-29/%5Brecovered-thread-86975%5D-84888/)

dbuk Mar 28, 2006 4:56 AM

Hi,

I bought an FZ30 a couple weeks back after deciding it was best for my purposes. I think it's an excellent cam and glad I bought it. I've been able to take lovely photos.:-)

I didn't ask any elses opinion of the camera, but reading other forums I see lots of people say "Noise is high - don't buy it" and such while at the same time those same people say "I've never actually handled one".:?

What I want to know is how can people be so adamant that the camera is bad without even trying it. I've seen several examples where people have been persuaded to buy a different camera I would guess largely on the basis of these erroneous opinions. It's a shame these people end up dismissing what is in effect a lovely camera.:shock:

Incidentally I find the noise levels are exaggerated out of all proportion - and I make this opinion after using the camera myself.:lol:

Regards

Dave Bishton

dissembled Mar 28, 2006 6:24 AM

As proof, can you upload one you took at ISO 400 w. high shutter speeds please?

From this photo from DPR, the noise is maad OOGLY.

http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/pan...icture-268.jpg
:O

iason Mar 28, 2006 6:50 AM

Actually, I simply does not believe such rumours or "digital camera legends" like this: Panasonic Lumix has got noise!

Any camera with a small CCD sensor has got it! More or less, but exists..

Usually most of the people wants to get maximum efficiency with their low-budget cameras by minimum adjustment. Well, this is not the way it should be. If you take some good photographs, no doubt should you spend some seconds on controls of your cam.

Another issue is, as you said, people are mostly keen on believing things they do not actually understand or saw personally. Of course there are some pro digital camera fans who can critise this issue, but what makes me mad is the opinions of lots of people who does not even know what does "noise" mean.

I've decided to make my choice on FZ7, among the group including Sony H1 and Canon S2..

Especially, Canon has got lots of brand fans. (Myself also got a Canon) But "like as wearing googles of a horse" somehow, Canon S2 is said miles ahead of FZ7, because of the noise problem. Somebody, please look at the samples of Steve in ISO 400, and tell me which photo is more noisy?

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/p1000048.jpg
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_...s/IMG_0048.JPG

Well, I'm not an expert, but I can simply say for Pana, the quality is better and noise is much less than S2! (S2 is much more grainy) If I do not understand anything from photography, what I can say honestly is sample of FZ7 is seem much better to my eyes. And I think "my eyes" matter here, not anyone else's opinions..

ps: of course, i do not want to blame anyone, nor i don't want to disrespect people's decisions or opinions. My regret is for those who does not act evenly.

-Mert

dbuk Mar 28, 2006 6:59 AM

dissembled - I'll try to get a picture later tonight or tomorrow morning as I don't have the cam with me at the moment.

I know that at ISO400 I will have noise - the noise in the pic you posted is bad - but not so bad that it can't be improved with NeatImage etc. I know the cam has noise - I can live with that, whatI don't like is when people criticise the camwithout even having tried it.

iason I prefer the F7 shot - i've seen that comparison before - the S2 does look more noisy/grainy


edit: just PP'ed thephoto dissemble linked toin NeatImage - it did improve it but some detail was lost.

fmoore Mar 28, 2006 7:22 AM

dbuk wrote:
Quote:

What I want to know is how can people be so adamant that the camera is bad without even trying it.
Everyone wants to be the expert and manydon't feelencumbered by their lack of experience. To have read other's opinions is enough.
Quote:

As proof, can you upload one you took at ISO 400 w. high shutter speeds please?
From this photo from DPR, the noise is maad OOGLY.
Don't use iso400 unless absolutely neccessary. Iv'e taken over 30,000 shots with the Panasonic FZ1 and FZ5.Less than100 were at iso400. Sometimes they work and sometimes not. Granted, the Pannies are not particularly good low-light indoor cameras. No ultrazoom digicam has good indoor capability. The fuji f10/11/30 are excellent low-light(and low zoom) high-iso cameras. If low-light indoor is your medium, get one of those or a dslr.


dbuk Mar 28, 2006 7:33 AM

With a steady hand I took a few good pictures in an aquarium where no flash was permitted.

I kept the ISO to either 80 or 100 (I can't remember which) and the pictures came out very well. There was a little noise but it wasn't very noticeable.


If I can find the originals I'll post them.

samerlr Mar 28, 2006 7:40 AM


I believe that Noise is a relative subject some swear by the Fuji S9000 have very low noise but its image is soft and details is lost, well I see it from a different view what if I got Panasonic FZ30, I agree that it have noise but it have more sharp images and then I can use any noise reduction program and reduce the noise and the result will be close to S9000 even better I have much control.. That is how I see this issue of noise.



Regards,

Samer.

genece Mar 28, 2006 8:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I did a comparison of the S2 IS and the FZ30 and the crops are still on my site the S2 IS is much worse than the FZ30 and the photo that disassembled posted would be view at a size similar to this most of the time and the photo is fine...that 100% viewing is not really important to me.

samerlr Mar 28, 2006 8:37 AM

It's a simple question : what do you want more noise but less soft or more soft less noise ?! all Digital camera try to reduce the noise with it's internal software and the result is SOFT image but Panasonic FZ30 don't do that .. it make the choice up to you if you want less noise then use noise reduction SW and it will remove it at the cost of softness (like S9000 do).



Regards,

Samer

dissembled Mar 28, 2006 12:38 PM

Judging by the DPR photo, noise from the FZ30 sometimes show up as purple blotches.
I'm not sure if that's color noise or that can be avoided by shooting in b&w.

I've noticed that these purple blotches don't appear in EVERY iso 400 fz30 image that i've seen in the web. i think that the dpr review said that these purple blotches only appear under certain shutter speeds.

they advised that the best option would be to put noise reduction on 'low' so more details can be retained.
neat image will take care of the rest.

what was plainly obvious is that almost ALL iso 400 i've seen looked like paintings..
i see that effect more than i see noise artifacts (except for the special purple blotches).

i dont have the fz30 w. me yet so i'm not sure if that painting effect can be offset by setting the nr settings to the above.
but i guess it's better than dealing w. purple blotches in every i400 photo!!




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