Steve'sDigicams

boyzo · Jan 26, 2005, 9:32 PM

bobc wrote:

Quote:

rduve wrote:

Quote:

I am not sure if that was genuine or sarcastic. :-) In any case, to answer both of the previous postings. I don't consider myself in any "camp" at all. And if I made a statement about the Canon's clear superiority, I have to admit that this is purely subjective, based only on what I see with my eyes. Which, to me, is the deciding factor. My whole evaluation was done on large prints I made from Steve's images and looking at them closely. While I found that the Canon's are sharper and more like you are "right there" vs. most other brands, I did not notice any tradeoff in the form of jagged lines at all. Maybe the lab tests prove me wrong, but this is what I see clearly in front of me. I had done the same tests before purchasing the Canon G5 in the first place. At the time I compared it to the Minolta Z1 and Kodak 6490. I had come up with the same conclusion then, leading me to purchase my first Canon.

In any case, I still long for that 10-12x zoom. I am holding on for the next generation to find my perfect match, and I am taking gorgeous shots with my Canon G5 in the meantime. By the way, here is another endorsement for Canon: The i9900 printer blows away my previous Epson 1280 printer, in image quality, color balance, saturation, and speed.

Thanks, Guys!

Why don't you back up your findings with some pics. Let everyone see the results with their own eyes.

If you want to prove a point... Prove a point... Don't just state one...

If you don't post the proof... I guess your just talking sh****t...:blah:

bobc

Point well made Bobc

all Lumix from FZ1 to the FZ20 are fine camera's
They are well respected here in this forum.
As bobc said if you have objective proof of canon superiority post it ...
An btw who else has prosumer digi cams with 12x zoom AND f2.8 over the WHOLE range AND sharp.

boyzo · Jan 26, 2005, 9:54 PM

Superb Images here... FZ20
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/l...dels/fz20.html

Big Bob · Jan 27, 2005, 1:02 AM

A couple of things the Canon person shoud consider:

You usually see what you want to see. Your post about "nothing holds a candle" pretty much describes what you wanted to see.

However....

Most digitals have a sharpness setting. The "sharpness" you're seeing may be only a result of different settings or defaults. Take a RAW file from a fancy Canon DSLR converted straight and compare it to your G5, now you will see a BIG difference. Does that mean your G5 is better?

Digitals process photos to some extent (unless you shoot RAW) and adjust color balance, sharpness, etc. before compressing and saving the file. This can be changed with settings. Your test really shows nothing except that at the settings used in the tests, the Canon photos loooked better to you.

Personally, I use 'soft' settings in my digitals; I prefer to do the sharpening myself, so I can get it how I want it. You can't undo sharpening in general, so too little is safer than too much.

In-camera noise reduction also enters into it, so looking at some website images is not the best way to tell what a camera is really capable of.

BB

rduve · Jan 27, 2005, 3:57 AM

Ok Guys, I am back. Don't say I am stubborn now.I studied all your input, particularly NicTrop's regarding the Canon's tendency to sharpen at the expense of aliasing. So, I rendered a sharpening filter to the same Panasonic image and reprinted it. That indeed took care of my issue and made it indistinguishable from the Canon prints. Thus, I am relisting my Canon and I am ready to purchase the Panasonic FX20. Does anybody know the best price from a reputable vendor?

Thanks for all your help!

vIZnquest · Jan 27, 2005, 4:37 AM

Welcome to joining this group and that your findings brings you to ask where to get the best deal.

I am sure there are others out there but my choice was to go with Circuit City. I told them when I went in about the price they advertise on the Web which is $527.99 at the time and it was matched as they sell it for $599.99 in the store. I asked if I could open the box before buying since they do have a restocking fee if you change your mind of 15%. It has been reported that they have sold items as new that were returned. I am happy with my purchase and enjoy the camera. I do have other models that precede this one and am happy with them as well.

I am sure there are others that can share with you what they found in purchasing their FZ20.

Again,

Welcome Aboard!

Tom

nooner · Jan 27, 2005, 10:46 AM

Welcome. I can suggest a couple of places to look at. BH Photo and Vann's-$499. One Call-$529. Circuit City-$539. I bought mine at Circuit City for $539. I got it there because I wanted to see it in person and look it over. Plus they were giving a free battery and bag away. Sold the bag and bought a Lowepro so it was a good deal for me. Also, I had a noise in mine I didn't like soI took it back and got a new onewith no questions asked. Shop around. I would use this site to check out vendors

http://www.resellerratings.com/find.pl

Narmer · Jan 27, 2005, 12:08 PM

RDUVE, if you get the in camera sharpening setting to LOW you will also be able to apply "Sharpen More" in Photoshop or, in case of a resized image,"SHARPEN" without much aliasing on screen.

One more point in which FZ should beat G5: Leica great 432mm zoom seems to have less PF and CA than G5, for which I have seen horrible things in this respect.

But no cam is perfect as we know, and all the cameras pics "as out of the Cam" can greatly benefit of PP.

As I said perhaps FZ3-10-15-20 won't have those well saturated colors like Canons and the Canon exposures metering, but for most of the shots FZ Ultra zooms allow to take, the only alternative is DSLR.

Many persons have a Nikon D70or Canon D300/D20 with FZ20 and -believe me- they often renounce to the better image quality in favor of FZ20 "aLL in one":from 2-3 cm macros to very distant objects with one lens and far less worrying about add on lenses packs...

WIth some PP you can throw the noise off of the underexposed zones in FZ20 pics and you can retouch colors and saturation as you want.

But you can't help without that 12x zoom.

HarjTT · Jan 27, 2005, 1:03 PM

Boyzo

Thats the first time I've seen that picture gallery and have to agree those pictures are superb.

Harj

PS

Just had a look at the LC1 gallery too - nice!

rduve · Jan 27, 2005, 3:40 PM

Narmer wrote:

Quote:

RDUVE, if you get the in camera sharpening setting to LOW you will also be able to apply "Sharpen More" in Photoshop or, in case of a resized image,"SHARPEN" without much aliasing on screen.

Thanks. So, you recommend to keep the low or standard sharpness setting on the camera and then sharpen the picture in Photoshop, rather than using the "sharp" setting on the camera? Makes sense.

NickTrop · Jan 27, 2005, 4:06 PM

Good luck with your new camera. Isn't eBay great? What you get for the Canon at auction (guessing) should cover 1/2 to 2/3rds of the cost of your FZ-20. I'm of the opinion that I shoot with the camera set to as little in-camera processing as possible, and colors as "dull" as the camera will allow (no over-saturation...). Just give me the jpg, the rest I'll handle myself in PS.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Steve'sDigicams

Recent Camera Reviews

Most Active Forums

Most Popular Deals

Latest Feature Articles

Jan 26, 2005, 9:54 PM	#22
boyzo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,544	Superb Images here... FZ20 http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/l...dels/fz20.html

Jan 27, 2005, 1:02 AM	#23
Big Bob Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2	A couple of things the Canon person shoud consider: You usually see what you want to see. Your post about "nothing holds a candle" pretty much describes what you wanted to see. However.... Most digitals have a sharpness setting. The "sharpness" you're seeing may be only a result of different settings or defaults. Take a RAW file from a fancy Canon DSLR converted straight and compare it to your G5, now you will see a BIG difference. Does that mean your G5 is better? Digitals process photos to some extent (unless you shoot RAW) and adjust color balance, sharpness, etc. before compressing and saving the file. This can be changed with settings. Your test really shows nothing except that at the settings used in the tests, the Canon photos loooked better to you. Personally, I use 'soft' settings in my digitals; I prefer to do the sharpening myself, so I can get it how I want it. You can't undo sharpening in general, so too little is safer than too much. In-camera noise reduction also enters into it, so looking at some website images is not the best way to tell what a camera is really capable of. BB

Jan 27, 2005, 3:57 AM	#24
rduve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,504	Ok Guys, I am back. Don't say I am stubborn now.I studied all your input, particularly NicTrop's regarding the Canon's tendency to sharpen at the expense of aliasing. So, I rendered a sharpening filter to the same Panasonic image and reprinted it. That indeed took care of my issue and made it indistinguishable from the Canon prints. Thus, I am relisting my Canon and I am ready to purchase the Panasonic FX20. Does anybody know the best price from a reputable vendor? Thanks for all your help!

Jan 27, 2005, 4:37 AM	#25
vIZnquest Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,974	Welcome to joining this group and that your findings brings you to ask where to get the best deal. I am sure there are others out there but my choice was to go with Circuit City. I told them when I went in about the price they advertise on the Web which is $527.99 at the time and it was matched as they sell it for $599.99 in the store. I asked if I could open the box before buying since they do have a restocking fee if you change your mind of 15%. It has been reported that they have sold items as new that were returned. I am happy with my purchase and enjoy the camera. I do have other models that precede this one and am happy with them as well. I am sure there are others that can share with you what they found in purchasing their FZ20. Again, Welcome Aboard! Tom

Jan 27, 2005, 10:46 AM	#26
nooner Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,452	Welcome. I can suggest a couple of places to look at. BH Photo and Vann's-$499. One Call-$529. Circuit City-$539. I bought mine at Circuit City for $539. I got it there because I wanted to see it in person and look it over. Plus they were giving a free battery and bag away. Sold the bag and bought a Lowepro so it was a good deal for me. Also, I had a noise in mine I didn't like soI took it back and got a new onewith no questions asked. Shop around. I would use this site to check out vendors http://www.resellerratings.com/find.pl

Jan 27, 2005, 12:08 PM	#27
Narmer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,813	RDUVE, if you get the in camera sharpening setting to LOW you will also be able to apply "Sharpen More" in Photoshop or, in case of a resized image,"SHARPEN" without much aliasing on screen. One more point in which FZ should beat G5: Leica great 432mm zoom seems to have less PF and CA than G5, for which I have seen horrible things in this respect. But no cam is perfect as we know, and all the cameras pics "as out of the Cam" can greatly benefit of PP. As I said perhaps FZ3-10-15-20 won't have those well saturated colors like Canons and the Canon exposures metering, but for most of the shots FZ Ultra zooms allow to take, the only alternative is DSLR. Many persons have a Nikon D70or Canon D300/D20 with FZ20 and -believe me- they often renounce to the better image quality in favor of FZ20 "aLL in one":from 2-3 cm macros to very distant objects with one lens and far less worrying about add on lenses packs... WIth some PP you can throw the noise off of the underexposed zones in FZ20 pics and you can retouch colors and saturation as you want. But you can't help without that 12x zoom.

Jan 27, 2005, 1:03 PM	#28
HarjTT Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,555	Boyzo Thats the first time I've seen that picture gallery and have to agree those pictures are superb. Harj PS Just had a look at the LC1 gallery too - nice!

Jan 27, 2005, 4:06 PM	#30
NickTrop Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,249	Good luck with your new camera. Isn't eBay great? What you get for the Canon at auction (guessing) should cover 1/2 to 2/3rds of the cost of your FZ-20. I'm of the opinion that I shoot with the camera set to as little in-camera processing as possible, and colors as "dull" as the camera will allow (no over-saturation...). Just give me the jpg, the rest I'll handle myself in PS.