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Old Jun 1, 2006, 10:07 PM   #31
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And I surely will agree that the Panasonic comments were surprising, and confusing.

Are they saying that other manufacturers may have roughly the same offering for less and the public doesn't know about it yet. Here you have potential in a camerabut you don't want to recognize it as such? It all depends on what the public does? No kidding?

Now we all know the public can be fickle when it comes to parting with their money but if the product offers something, andthey must know that it does, otherwise why get involvedwith it,then why the concern about the public.Can you imagine Canon saying, ''Well we believe we have a product the public wants but we're concerned about the public.'' This is a risk the manufacturers take. That's business.

So Panasonic I think, figures they have something the public wants but how much will they be willing to pay for it. Well, again, it had better be the equal , or more, than The D200 and the 30D I think. Can you imagine the L1 at $1,900 dollars in the opening scene, then six months later asking $1,300. Good for me of course but bad for them. :G

I'll tell you it will have to have so-so ratings for me not to buy it, assuming it comes in at $1,800 or so, with the lens. I sure do like the looks of this dude...and this is without the live view part of it. Come on September.
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 5:56 PM   #32
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I normally don't like to post speculation but today I went into the local photography store near work (its part of a national chain) and looked at the Sony R1 and a couple of DSLR's including the 30D again. I got chatting to the salesperson regards the Sony Alpha DSLR and the Pana L1 and availablity etc. According to the salesman, the suggested MRP being rumoured in the retail channel for the L1 is £1600=$3000USD for the body only. With kit lens he thought it would be just under £2000 and that the price is partly being influenced by Leica. Now I'm taking his rumoured price for the L1 with a serious "pinch of salt" becuase you can get the Canon 30D+kit lens for £850, the Oly E330 for £800 and the Nikon D200 for £1100 and any higher than that your looking at the Canon 5D for £1800 (body only). Perhaps Panasonic should let everyone know the price of the camera up front and if changes need to be made that effect price prior to the launch in September then that would be more than acceptable.

Cheers

HarjTT

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 6:24 PM   #33
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HarjTT wrote:
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According to the salesman, the suggested MRP being rumoured in the retail channel for the L1 is £1600=$3000USD for the body only. With kit lens he thought it would be just under £2000 and that the price is partly being influenced by Leica.
Panasonic isn't that dumb (they'll want to sell the cameras, and very few people would pay that much for one, given the competition).

They'll probably delay announcing pricing as long as possible, to see what they're up against at the time the camera will be available for purchase. A lot can change between now and when they're actually shipping the camera.

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 7:41 PM   #34
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Hi Jim

My thoughts exactly and trying to persuade this guy otherwise just didn't work - that at that price for a body only why not just pay the extra 200 and go full frame with the Canon 5D? Thats why I wasn't too sure whether I should have posted todays event. I think he was more interested in trying to persuade me to buy the Canon30D +18-70mm f4 IS L kit that they had on sale.

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Old Jun 3, 2006, 10:57 PM   #35
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I agree that the salesman wanted to sell the 30D. Why else would he say $3,000 for the L1. It sure seems to be a scare tacticmentioning that price tag. Speaking of that, this salesman, if knowledgable about these things, must know that Panasonicrepresentatives didn't say in competition with the 5D as already noted a post or so above from you guys.

Now I admit to not being familiar with the ins and out of the industry but I just can't imagine this camera selling for that much given the comments of the (Panasonic)representatives. Panasonic is no different than Canon, Nikon and all the rest of the big guns: they ''listen'' to you guys right here and elsewhere around the world; they know what needs to be done; and it sure doesn't entail jumping ship so to speak to sellthe L1at that $3,000 price tagconsidering thousands of potential buyers of the L1 also read the representatives comments from a few weeks ago.

I'm saying I really like the looks of the L1and the potential it seems to be offering but I do have my price range too—and the EOS 30D definitely falls well within it.
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Old Jun 4, 2006, 1:02 PM   #36
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Hi HarjTT,

Just wonderin. What figure if any did he say for the Alpha?
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Old Jun 4, 2006, 2:59 PM   #37
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Hi Tazzie

From memory his opinion was that the Alpha was an upgraded KM7D, but this time with a 10MP sensor, although not the one in the R1, with the KM's IS, lots of refinements to handling, high res LCD, menus etc but would be offered in two kits one with a standard lens kit and the other with a Carl Zeiss branded AF lens. The standard kit lens Alpha he suggested would be just less than the Canon 30D about £800 (so i'd assume that would be about $1200USD mark) although the straight exchange rate would make it $1500USD. The Carl Ziess lens equipped alpha would cost about the same as the Pana L1 body price that he quoted me - which meant £1600/3000USD but I'd assume that to be $2000USD. Now the first price of the standard kit lens alpha seems realistic but I wasn't too sure of £1600 mark for the Carl Ziess based one. I'm assuming it was a lot of sales talk esp because by then I had already told him that I was willing to wait to see what happens with the L1/Sony alpha's first, then maybe the E330/Canon 30D and possibly even look at getting the Sony R1. Now if his pricing for the L1 turns out to be correct I may just go and grab the R1 for just £500 although I'd miss IS and ergonomically I don't like it but IQ wise its pretty hard to beat at that price point. I'd look at the KM5/7D's but theyre pretty hard to find here.

Andy, regards the L1. I'm with you on eth design and ergonomics as I want a camera that won;t scare people if you point it in their direction - I've seen some street photographers with the LC1 and nobody bats an eyelid as they just seem to assuem its an old antiquated camera. Pull out a Canon or Nikon DSLR and the y just seem to jump. I'm willing to pay Canon 30D money for the L1 or Sony's Alpha but not Canon 5D $$$$'s.

Cheers

HarjTT

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Old Jun 5, 2006, 2:28 AM   #38
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Whew! The potential price of the L1 makes hair want to grow on the top of my head. :sad:

It's interesting HarjTT you mentioned the LC1.I was really taking note of the LC1 when it first appeared but then I noted during a review someplace that the lens was only three power I believe. The reviewer, while generally giving the camera good marks said it was unjustified, in his opinion, to spend that kind of money for a non-interchangeable lens camera; particularly in light of thefact the 20D was the same price or a bit less. That stopped me coldin my tracks. I mean I read initiallyit (LC1)was a low power lens but it took the reviewer'scomment to make me pay attention to that fact; so much so that I didn't even follow up to see if it would accept accessories to boost the lens power. And I'm sure it could have though.

So last night after leaving this topic I decided to check out the review on the Sigma SD10 ( I think )and was doing well with the results until I came across all this ''post'' stuff. Since I'm a ''weekend'' photographer the idea of me having to go through a computer firstto have others view pictures turned me off. I'm sure it delights others but I don't have the time for that. (And I'm sure some here are thinking why would Ibother with a digital camera that expensive anyway.) It doesn't matter fellas, the L1 is calling my name. I hope. :-)


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Old Jun 5, 2006, 5:46 PM   #39
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If you guys haven;t seen it - the Sony Alpha is here - just checking eth previews on here and at dp:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_.../alpha100.html

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydslra100/

Looks very much like a revamped 7D.


That sales rep was pretty close if you ask me - 10MP CCD and not the 10MP CMOS like the R1, IS, anti-dust and 3 Carl Zeiss branded lenses - ok he only mentioned the one Carl Ziess and nothing about the anti-dust but he was also correct on it being an AF lens, the high res LCD and basically the price for the kit lens. Here's the US pricing for Alpha and the Carl Zeiss branded lenses:

The DSLR-A100 is priced at $900 for the body only, and $1000 with the 18-70 lens.

Pricing of the Carl Ziess branded lenses(from dpreview):

SAL 16-80 mm F3.5-4.5 Carl Zeiss
(24-120 mm equiv., $699, Nov 06)
SAL 85 mm F1.4 Carl Zeiss
(125 mm equiv., $1299, Oct 06) New Carl Zeiss
SAL 135 mm F1.8 Carl Zeiss
(200 mm equiv., $1399, Oct 06) New Carl Zeiss

Now that I've read through the various previews of the Alpha I think it's good news all round and should force Pana to look at their pricing strategy and not over price the L1+kit lens. The equivalent Sony alpha + Carl Ziess lens (although it is slower than the Leica D) is going to cost just a tad under $1600USD therefore Pana could not charge a lot more than $1600 for the L1 kit.

Cheers

HarjTT

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Old Jun 5, 2006, 7:30 PM   #40
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HarjTT wrote:
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The equivalent Sony alpha + Carl Ziess lens (although it is slower than the Leica D) is going to cost just a tad under $1600USD therefore Pana could not charge a lot more than $1600 for the L1 kit.
The Carl Zeiss 16-80mm lens has a focal range that starts out wider and goes longer (from an angle of view perspective, after adjusting it for the sensor size). ;-)

It's angle of view on a KM DSLR would be equivalent to a 24-120mm lens on a 35mm model.

The Panasonic 14-50mm lens on a 4/3 DSLR would have an angle of view equivalent to a 28-100mm lens on a 35mm model.

If you want a lens that has roughly the same focal range as the Leica, you could always look at something like the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC lens.

On the Sony Alpha 100, it would give you an angle of view equivalent to using a 26-105mm lens on a 35mm camera. That's still wider and longer than the Leica. But, it's close to the same (although the Leica is brighter on the long end, there is less than one stop difference between f/3.5 and f/4.5).

Street Price on the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC lens is under $400 here in the U.S. ($389 at larger vendors like Adorama and B&H).


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