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Old Jun 17, 2006, 5:53 AM   #61
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Andrew, you really take your time composing an answer! :-)

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"OK, let me adress some of your statements.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"As far as I am concerned, this whole topic is more or less speculative. We aren't playing with (conclusive) facts but expressing opinions based on our own experience and thoughts. At least, for now, till the time comes when the L1 will be released.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"When I was talking about there being lots of places/products to choose from, I wasn't talking about ONE product but that there are lots of products that adress the same needs and that we don't have to believe or buy into what one party or the other says but we are free to search around and research intoour object of consumative desire and based on the results of that endeavour, make a choice.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"As far as APS-C vs 4/3 goes, my thoughts were expressed on a pure size/quality ratio. In photography there are no miracle solutions. The idea is pretty basic, as far as I know: the bigger the sensor the better the picture. At least, putting it simple, that's what it all boilsdown to. So, my immediate thought was this: How can Panasonic and Olympus want to compete (even with their highly acclaimed LivePreview) with cameras that have a smaller sensor in a market where picture quality is what is all about. Usually, when somebody gets into dSLRs it means that they expect a certain quality and, based on tradition and continuity, the standards have been set already by APS-C size cameras and as far as the market evolves it's either one meets with those standards (and, perhaps,increases them) or it is marginalized in the market and is dealt with the consequences of everything that comes with that.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"I am curious as to what is the Olympus E-330 selling figures compared to other sSLR brands' similar priced products. In my opinion, the E-330 isquite expensive for it's worth.Deducing from that, the L1 won't be far off.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Well, it all comes down to pricing then. And, whether you admit it or not, this whole topic of conversationis based around the L1 price. So, is the L1 worth the 1000$+ or not, I guess we'll know for sure in a few months time, if not sooner.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Cheery-o!
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Old Jun 17, 2006, 9:26 AM   #62
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zygh wrote:
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''Andrew, you really take your time composing an answer!'':-)
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Only because I can't type fast.
Quote:
"OK, let me adress some of your statements.

"As far as I am concerned, this whole topic is more or less speculative. We aren't playing with (conclusive) facts but expressing opinions based on our own experience and thoughts. At least, for now, till the time comes when the L1 will be released.''
Quote:
And I will agree with this. Everything I've said has been opinion and speculation.
Quote:
"When I was talking about there being lots of places/products to choose from, I wasn't talking about ONE product but that there are lots of products that adress the same needs and that we don't have to believe or buy into what one party or the other says but we are free to search around and research intoour object of consumative desire and based on the results of that endeavour, make a choice.''
Quote:
Context says I wasn't talking about one product either:-)
Quote:
''As far as APS-C vs 4/3 goes, my thoughts were expressed on a pure size/quality ratio. In photography there are no miracle solutions. The idea is pretty basic, as far as I know: the bigger the sensor the better the picture. At least, putting it simple, that's what it all boilsdown to. So, my immediate thought was this: How can Panasonic and Olympus want to compete (even with their highly acclaimed LivePreview) with cameras that have a smaller sensor in a market where picture quality is what is all about.''
Quote:
And I will agree that the basic idea is the bigger the better. This also assumes Panasonic should know it too but are choosing to go with a smaller sensor anyway. This means, to me, they've figured out the limitations of a smaller sized sensor and have dealt with it tothe engineers satisfaction. Otherwise they'll have a debacle on their hands. This will be a reference to your ''and, perhaps, increases them.''
Quote:

"Well, it all comes down to pricing then. And, whether you admit it or not, this whole topic of conversationis based around the L1 price. So, is the L1 worth the 1000$+ or not, I guess we'll know for sure in a few months time, if not sooner.''
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BINGO:!::-)
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 7:16 AM   #63
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$1999 with lens.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/pa...006_l1_pr.html

Edited... Steve now has the Press Release here, so I changed the link to it.

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Old Jun 21, 2006, 7:25 AM   #64
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JimC wrote:
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$1999 with lens.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/pa...006_l1_pr.html

Edited by JimC (changed link to the Press Release on our site).
They have got to be kidding!

Sorry... I just don't see a mad rush to go out and buy this camera. Especially not at that price point. What's it got that's useful that doesn't already exist? Where is it's edge? There is just nothing that screams out at me, not even a whimper that says "buy this camera". Live previewand anti dust is not enough.I didget excited reading about the 14mm to 50mm Leica lens but then it's crop factor coversion rate hit me.... it's 35mm equivalent is28mm to 100mm. They could have at least not made it so darn "butt ugly" and they could have at least jazzed up the ergos. I could be dead wrong, but I think they've boxed themselselves into corner and the only selling feature might be to lower the price, but I don't think they will be willing to go that low..
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 7:47 AM   #65
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Leica glass is not cheap:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...Q=&ci=7089

The new Lens with the L1 is likely to be very good, at a bargain price compared to many other Leica lenses.


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Old Jun 21, 2006, 8:31 AM   #66
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Maybe by theoriginal release date they will have lowered the price. They are testing the waters maybe?

Just thought of this: What this means to me is since Panasonic's initial comments about the 30D beingcompetition then they must have concluded that, at some point in time,the 30D buyers usually opt for a better lens than the 18-55 package that comes with the 30D. Since Panasonic has no other lens besides that offered then this must be theunseen competition that Panasonic is after.


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Old Jun 21, 2006, 8:34 AM   #67
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Just now flipped over to JimC's link. Hmmm. The L1 won't be available until early September. Wellll now.
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 8:58 AM   #68
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JimC wrote:
Quote:
Leica glass is not cheap:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...Q=&ci=7089

The new Lens with the L1 is likely to be very good, at a bargain price compared to many other Leica lenses.


True, Leica glass is not cheap, but to me this is as much "Leica" as those "Zeiss" lenses are Sony puts on their cameras and "Voigtlander" lenses Cosina's trying to pass off on their rangefinders. The only part of Germany that lens touched was, maybe, a visitingtechnitians hand to inspect it.It's "Leica" in name only- hardly a selling point to anyone that would/should know better. If the camera is priced right as a "body only" it looks like it might be a good thing for someone like myself who already owns a set of Olympus E-lenses, but good lord, that lens is way overpriced for what it REALLY is......a Panasonic lens.
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 9:31 AM   #69
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Bottom line: Right or wrong, it's not going to sell worth a darn at $2000.
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 10:13 AM   #70
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"With the DMC-L1, we confirm Panasonic's position as a leader in the imaging category,"

Yeah, dream on Panny! :lol:

"The camera will be available beginning early September for a suggested retail price of $1,999."

Rubbish! No-one in their right minds would pay this much for this! :blah:

Is it just me or is the L1 doomed to take the path of the LC1? Either that or it's price will fall rapidly as there won't beenough sales for this product, which I doubt when thinking of the LC1.

Oh, I can't wait for Panny's snotty attitude to be obliterated by shitty sales for their long-awaited dSLR. That would serve 'em right, for no company that is this angelically ignorant of the market conditionsdeservesanything else from customers.


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