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Old Jun 24, 2006, 6:32 PM   #1
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Normally with the FZ's and all their other cam's that they have released to date they have always gone with a near universal release date for the Japan, Europe and North America. So I'm a wee bit suprised why Panasonic is releasing the L1 in Japan in July 2006 and then the US in Sept 2006 and yet no date for Europe? Are they basically beta testing it or testing the water in Japan first to see what kind of reception its going to recieve and as its going to be released within teh next 4 weeks I find the lack of sample images intruiging.

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Old Jun 25, 2006, 4:41 PM   #2
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It could very well be beta testing. And it's interesting to note the ''3,000'' figure mentioned by JimC in another thread. They may be, as an outside possibility, thinking it's easier to recall that number in the event of discrepancies from reviewers than it would be tens of thousands. Just (cynical)speculation mind you.

As noted elsewhere Panasonic is market savvy, just like the rest of the industry. Also as per DPREVIEW's preview of the L1 there were a couple of details the reviewer wasn't impressed with and Panasonic notedone of themwould be taken care of. I believe it had something to do with the viewfinder being dark as it regards the live view. However the reviewer didn't say if Panasonic would address the four-way controller issue as it seems Panasonic's was different than the rest of the industry'sDSLRs in this regard. This may not mean anything of consequence but it may be something for Panasonic to look at particularly in light of the $2,000 figure which disturbs a lot of people I'm sure.
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Old Jul 6, 2006, 8:04 AM   #3
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Andrew Waters wrote:
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It could very well be beta testing. And it's interesting to note the ''3,000'' figure mentioned by JimC in another thread. They may be, as an outside possibility, thinking it's easier to recall that number in the event of discrepancies from reviewers than it would be tens of thousands. Just (cynical)speculation mind you.

As noted elsewhere Panasonic is market savvy, just like the rest of the industry. Also as per DPREVIEW's preview of the L1 there were a couple of details the reviewer wasn't impressed with and Panasonic notedone of themwould be taken care of. I believe it had something to do with the viewfinder being dark as it regards the live view. However the reviewer didn't say if Panasonic would address the four-way controller issue as it seems Panasonic's was different than the rest of the industry'sDSLRs in this regard. This may not mean anything of consequence but it may be something for Panasonic to look at particularly in light of the $2,000 figure which disturbs a lot of people I'm sure.
They may be marketsavvy, but I think they may have missed the boat on this one. When you try to tap into a new market, you have to offer something that no one else has or at least do it better. I see nothing that the L1 offers to make consumers switch.You have to ask youself why the buy the Panasonic?

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Panasonic name? I don't think so.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Price? I don't think so.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Cutting edge technology? I don't think so.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Psuedo Leica Lens? I don't think so.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Live Preview? I don't think so.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Why not a universal release date? They obviously have very little faith in their market strategy and are winging it. My advise to anyone that really wants this camera is to wait, because they willhave to drop the price on the L1 to see any kind o style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"f market share.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Note: In was really hoping to see something better from them since I ownPansonic cameras and camcorders. Panasonic is really starting to become a disappoint in both areas.
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Old Jul 9, 2006, 1:32 AM   #4
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Gozintas' quote:

''They may be marketsavvy, but I think they may have missed the boat on this one. When you try to tap into a new market, you have to offer something that no one else has or at least do it better. I see nothing that the L1 offers to make consumers switch.You have to ask youself why the buy the Panasonic?''


Of course time will tell if they ''missed the boat,'' and if the ''early'' Panasonic pictures are an indication of thepicture-taking capabilities of the L1 then they will have missed the boat.

Actually Panasonic isn't tapping into a ''new'' marketas their product line is electronics anyway. (My GS400 has a respectable 4 megapixel still feature.)However, to assume to say you have to offer somethingno one else has is abit of an overstatement. I don't believe there is anything revolutionary in the digital camera world, just evolutionary. So in this sense Panasonic has no need to offer anythingno one else has other than a feature or two that will persuade some to buy their product. Now the ''do it better'' part of your comment makes a lotof sense, as it would to other manufacturers also. Every camera maker looks to make their product more interesting than the competition and Panasonic surely is no different in this respect and since I'm about to be a first time digital camera buyer the L1 has an interesting look to me and it has nothing to do with the live view function but everything to do with the shutter speeds and aperture availability at a glance.

Of course the price of the L1 at firstglance is steep but but so isan EOS 30Dbody withone of their more expensive lens or maybe the Nikon D200. So if I was going to spend that much for the 30D with one of Canon's better lens then the L1'sprice has struck a balance with me, assuming the L1 is the equal to the othersof course, and this, obviously, will be determined by the upcomingin-depth reviews. If they are negative then I will certainly look elsewhere to spend my money.

And to be sure,Panasonic will be nervous as it regards the Sony Alpha and justifiably so for the huge price difference. But even this comes down to a perception of the buyer in that does this camera work for him from amechanical and emotional point of view.
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Old Jul 13, 2006, 10:57 AM   #5
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Andrew Waters wrote:
Quote:
Gozintas' quote:

''They may be marketsavvy, but I think they may have missed the boat on this one. When you try to tap into a new market, you have to offer something that no one else has or at least do it better. I see nothing that the L1 offers to make consumers switch.You have to ask youself why the buy the Panasonic?''


Of course time will tell if they ''missed the boat,'' and if the ''early'' Panasonic pictures are an indication of thepicture-taking capabilities of the L1 then they will have missed the boat.

Actually Panasonic isn't tapping into a ''new'' marketas their product line is electronics anyway. (My GS400 has a respectable 4 megapixel still feature.)However, to assume to say you have to offer somethingno one else has is abit of an overstatement. I don't believe there is anything revolutionary in the digital camera world, just evolutionary. So in this sense Panasonic has no need to offer anythingno one else has other than a feature or two that will persuade some to buy their product. Now the ''do it better'' part of your comment makes a lotof sense, as it would to other manufacturers also. Every camera maker looks to make their product more interesting than the competition and Panasonic surely is no different in this respect and since I'm about to be a first time digital camera buyer the L1 has an interesting look to me and it has nothing to do with the live view function but everything to do with the shutter speeds and aperture availability at a glance.

Of course the price of the L1 at firstglance is steep but but so isan EOS 30Dbody withone of their more expensive lens or maybe the Nikon D200. So if I was going to spend that much for the 30D with one of Canon's better lens then the L1'sprice has struck a balance with me, assuming the L1 is the equal to the othersof course, and this, obviously, will be determined by the upcomingin-depth reviews. If they are negative then I will certainly look elsewhere to spend my money.

And to be sure,Panasonic will be nervous as it regards the Sony Alpha and justifiably so for the huge price difference. But even this comes down to a perception of the buyer in that does this camera work for him from amechanical and emotional point of view.
You can't be serious... being in the electronics business in general is not the same as being in the DSLR business.. … and BTW that 4 megapixel in your GS 400 doesn't come close to the image quality of a DSLR. Respectable to who... other camcorder owners who are trying to use their camcorder as a camera??? It doesn't even come close to an Ultrazoom Point and Shoot. The GS400 is what it is... a great 3CCD camcorder. Panasonic blew it with the replacement model GS500. Great job Panasonic did creating new 3CCD models with less features than their predeccers. Funny how people are still looking to buy older models.

No one in their right mind will plunk down 2000 dollars for a LUMMOX. No one seriously interested in a 30D is going to buy much anything else let alone a LUMMOX. Who can get that emotional about Panasonic or any camera for that matter? Keep waiting while the rest of us take pictures with better equipment for less money. When the LUMMOX finally comes out I suggest you buy two and use them as matching bookends.

Seriously, take the advise others have provided. There are better cameras out there with tons of great glass right now and no need to wait and see how Panasonic pans out on what unless you're stuck on owning something that says Panasonic. Even if it's a good camera, do you really want to be a guniea pig forsomething that hasn't been proven? I can tell you that is I was stuck on Panasonic, I would have to wait at least a year, maybe two to see how it pans out. In the meantimeget a Canon, Nikon, or Sony/KM... you'll be glad you did. If you reallythink you might want the Panasonicdown the road get the killer deal on an Olympus with rebate for under 400 for now and save anylenses you buy for later.


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Old Jul 13, 2006, 11:42 PM   #6
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Meatwhistle said,




''You can't be serious... being in the electronics business in general is not the same as being in the DSLR business.''

So, are you suggesting Panasonic's ''point and shoots'' aren't cameras andtherefore not entitled tobecalled electronics? Are you saying it's a quantum leap to make DSLRS for Panasonic? Sony too! Really! You can't be serious about that one

''...and BTW that 4 megapixel in your GS 400 doesn't come close to the image quality of a DSLR.''

And I don't recall saying it dideither. But you did, as an afterthought, remember Iused the wordrespectful.Slow down when you read.

''Respectable to who... other camcorder owners who are trying to use their camcorder as a camera???''

Well I suppose there will be some you can refer to that feel that way since you were the one that brought it up.

''No one in their right mind will plunk down 2000 dollars for a LUMMOX.''

You're right about this one. I wouldn't buy a Lummox either.

''Who can get that emotional about Panasonic or any camera for that matter?''

You are.

''Keep waiting while the rest of us take pictures with better equipment for less money.''

How much less money are you talking about? One hundred dollars? Four hundred? How about a thousand? You are aware some people will tell you anyone that pays more than a couple of hundred dollars for a camera is stupid. Youdon't consider yourself that way do you.

''When the LUMMOX finally comes out I suggest you buy two and use them as matching bookends.''

Are you jealous because of the money involved?

'' Even if it's a good camera, do you really want to be a guniea pig forsomething that hasn't been proven?''

If it's a good camera how can anyone be a guinea pig for anything.Your rhetorical guinea pig is a wasted semanticaleffort.Of course you intended to say (I think) why buy something that hasn't been proven. To which I can say I have no plans on buying any camera until I've read all the reviews bythe folks that make a living of it. And yes, that includes the L1. You would have known that if you had taken the time to be adiscerning reader.








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Old Jul 14, 2006, 9:39 AM   #7
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Andrew Waters wrote:
Quote:

Meatwhistle said,




''You can't be serious... being in the electronics business in general is not the same as being in the DSLR business.''

So, are you suggesting Panasonic's ''point and shoots'' aren't cameras andtherefore not entitled tobecalled electronics? Are you saying it's a quantum leap to make DSLRS for Panasonic? Sony too! Really! You can't be serious about that one

''...and BTW that 4 megapixel in your GS 400 doesn't come close to the image quality of a DSLR.''

And I don't recall saying it dideither. But you did, as an afterthought, remember Iused the wordrespectful.Slow down when you read.

''Respectable to who... other camcorder owners who are trying to use their camcorder as a camera???''

Well I suppose there will be some you can refer to that feel that way since you were the one that brought it up.

''No one in their right mind will plunk down 2000 dollars for a LUMMOX.''

You're right about this one. I wouldn't buy a Lummox either.

''Who can get that emotional about Panasonic or any camera for that matter?''

You are.

''Keep waiting while the rest of us take pictures with better equipment for less money.''

How much less money are you talking about? One hundred dollars? Four hundred? How about a thousand? You are aware some people will tell you anyone that pays more than a couple of hundred dollars for a camera is stupid. Youdon't consider yourself that way do you.

''When the LUMMOX finally comes out I suggest you buy two and use them as matching bookends.''

Are you jealous because of the money involved?

'' Even if it's a good camera, do you really want to be a guniea pig forsomething that hasn't been proven?''

If it's a good camera how can anyone be a guinea pig for anything.Your rhetorical guinea pig is a wasted semanticaleffort.Of course you intended to say (I think) why buy something that hasn't been proven. To which I can say I have no plans on buying any camera until I've read all the reviews bythe folks that make a living of it. And yes, that includes the L1. You would have known that if you had taken the time to be adiscerning reader.


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Don't put words in my mouth. Once again, I state... beingin the electronics business in general is not the same as being in the DSLR business. I never said or suggested "Point & Shoots" aren't cameras.

Your actually quite comical,in a thread about DSLRs you usethe theory that 4MP in your camcorder is respectable as a prequalifier to Pansonic not entering the DSLR market as a new venture. Your 4 MP in your camcorder has no basis to them having experience in DSLR. Face it, this is their first DSLR, it is a brand new venture for them.

I'll explain my''Even if it's a good camera, do you really want to be a guniea pig forsomething that hasn't been proven?'' so that even you can understand it. Good in terms of features, good in terms of quality and even reliability still leaves room for a lot of issues and bugs to come out during the first and even second year of any new product. Mind you some issues can be corrected by simple mechanical fixes or firmware updates, other issues cannot. Obviously someone has to be a guinea pig for every new product that is introduced, but the choice is yours. We're not talking about a 2 or 3 hundred dollar camera here. Reading reviews won't help you in the case of issues that show up down the road. Search in some of the Canon threads for issues with LCDs orin Casio threads for issues with lens errors due to defects that sometimes don't show up for quite some time or only in certain circumstances. Note I'm not singling outCanon or Casio, I just recall some issues with those particular items. I never buy anything when it first comes out. I wouldn't do that with the Sony either, but Iam of the opinion it is a safer bet with thew Sony, since it is really not new. It is an enhanced KM design.Based on the type of commentary in your threads, beingor not being a discerning reader has little to do with anything and just an attempt at trying to show the world how intelligent you are. Read all the pro reviews you want. Reviewsare only the half of it and be careful, as some reviews are just shy of a paid endorsement.

Youmake a lot of presumptions on thepart of my statements and goout of your way to make it personal, but at least you are consistent as I see from previous threads in your responses to others. I am not jealous of the money involved. If anything I am disappointed in the current camcorder and camera line of Panasonic products and what they are about to offer. If you want to buy one,by all means do so as it is your money. I just don't know why anyone would hold out for their DSLR when they have so much to prove and quality products already exist. The choice is ultimately yours. Good luck and make sure you get an extended warranty.
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 10:47 PM   #8
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Well you really started to makes some sense inyour paragraph that started with this: ''I'll explain my...''

Putting words in your mouth? Hardly. It had rhetoric written all over it.
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 11:09 PM   #9
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Oh I forgot. I just bought a digital camera magazine today that pits the D200, 30D and the Fuji S3 against each other. I haven't read the article as of yet but I will tonight. Other than they alltaketechnically goodpictures can you tell me whichwould be a winner for you...and the reason why. (Ihad been looking at the D200 AND 30D until the L1 came along.)You can do the technical details if you don't mind. I'l try to keep up. I'm serious.

The reason I ask is on a review of the Sony Alpha everything seemed to be going along smoothly until the reviewer said something about the histogram and that it was less than it should have been. Then the reviewer added ''What a pity.'' I mention this particular aspect because I didn't see a negative on a much earlier review of the EOS 30D as it regards its histogram.
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