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Old Dec 8, 2006, 10:05 PM   #11
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Roger, to me your photos are neither good nor bad, right nor wrong, but simply what the viewer sees them to be.
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Old Dec 8, 2006, 10:09 PM   #12
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Hi tcook, I posted them because I thought they were different than the normal hunting photo. I would never of guessed they would cause such a stir.

TOTALLY WACKY roger
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Roger, to me your photos are neither good nor bad, right nor wrong, but simply what the viewer sees them to be.
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Old Dec 8, 2006, 10:53 PM   #13
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Well, I kinda see where those people are coming from. I don't think most people expect to see that kind of stuff on a 'regular' photo forum.

Let's face it, the typical photo enthusiasts tend to be completely the opposite of the typical hunter. I don't want to put it too bluntly because I don't want to possibly offend the wonderful people here, so hopefully you get my drift.

In my younger days I was quite the hunter (slaughterer is probably a more appropriate term). Then I suddenly and permanently quit, while on a hunt, and I feel really bad about every critter I ever shot and therefore I'd rather not see that kind of photo either.

So I can understand the point of view of both sides. Yet I pretty much of agree with the anti-hunting people that commented, even though I also understand that hunting is actually an environmental positive under normal circumstances.

I don't know if there is a hunting site that allows users to post their own photos but I'd stick to something like that rather than posting that sort of stuff on a general photo forum, where you are going to alienate probably 60% of the people that look at them......

In fact if there isn't a user submitted hunting-photo website out there, it might be a great business opportunity for you to start one!
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Old Dec 8, 2006, 11:42 PM   #14
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Hi Roger,

You did stir the pot, didn't you. I wouldn't worry about it. We all know that hunting is a sport and some people just don't like it. I'm going with my brother-in-law after Christmas. I'll probably just take my camera but there is nothing wrong with hunting or hunters. It's just a touchy subject to some. I enjoyed your photos and am suprised at the reaction.

Don
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 2:43 AM   #15
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I like the the photos, very powerful, no matter which side of the fence you sit on.
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 4:08 AM   #16
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I must be a do- gooder and self righteous. I found the pictures disturbing
I'm partially in the same side, but it all depends on where you come from. Where I live we don't have any large wild living animals.

I do believe that hunting can have its benefits, but because we don't have any real wildlife, hunting here goes more in the direction of shooting any small fowl and then more with a bazooka than anything else.

On the other hand ... those pictures are great ... show another peace of the world that we know exists but most of us never have a look in.

Thanks for sharing them
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 11:38 AM   #17
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Roger,

don't let the whining get to you. some folks can't stomach the idea that the steak on their grill or the Big Mac they had for lunch was once a cow that was slaughtered without a chance. at least the elk have the opportunity to escape their fate. where's the sport in driving a nail gun into a steer's head from a foot away, or stretching gill nets almost completely across a river, like many of the Indian fishermen do up here in the NW?

in this day and age, few people NEED to hunt. most can afford - and prefer - to go to the store and buy their animals already killed, butchered, and neatly wrapped. they don't feel bad about it because they're simply buying a piece of meat, and they give no thought to where it came from. it's all nice an' sanitary, no work, no blood, no mess. most of them have never shouldered a rifle, and would probably be more dangerous to themselves than the elk if they tried. they have no idea of the skill required to make a clean kill with a .270 or .308 at 200 yards or more. they think it's like shooting fish in a barrel, and that the animal has no chance. nothing could be farther from the truth... but you can bet those who complain loudest would be right there squawking if all of a sudden there were no steaks, no pork chops, no chicken drumsticks, and no salmon filets in their grocer's meat case...

i'm not a hunter, but that's not because i object to hunting on any philosophical grounds. hunting is what mankind does. we always have, in one form or another. a thousand years ago, we hunted our own food with bows or spears; now we have giant commercial outfits kill our "prey" for us.i don't see much difference, except in terms of whose hands get dirty. the reason i don't hunt is, to be honest, sheer laziness! it's much easier and more convenient to stop at the store for that steak or whatever than to go tromping through the woods, risking my life at the hands of bozos who think hunting trips are an excuse to get drunk and shoot at anything that moves, then having to haul a carcass out of the hills and carve it up. yes, i've gone hunting, and yes, i've carved up deer to put venison in the freezer. writing a check is just a lot easier, especially at my age.

i'm assuming the folks who go on your guided hunts are as interested infilling their freezers as they are with the challenge of the hunt.i assume too, that they understand thathunting helps keep wild herds from getting too large, and causing animals to die slowly from starvation or disease. in short, they are not the sort to simply kill an animal, take the antlers for a trophy and leave the carcass for thebuzzards. i have no problem with hunting under those conditions. the only kind of hunters ido not like are the ones who don't know what they're doing, who cannot make a clean kill, who don't want the meat and only want the "thrill of the hunt".

this thread should not have turned into a political rant by the PETA crowd. but sometimes photography does stir up emotional responses, and frankly, if it does, you've done your job well. a photo should elicit some reaction, whether it be one of awe, sadness, sympathy, or laughter. a photo that evokes that kind of response is indeed a much more powerful statement than one that people merely look at and move on without a thought.

anyway, sorry to get so long-winded... the main thing i wanted to say was that emotion IS part of a good photo, and just because some people don't like the subject you've chosen doesn't make it a bad photo. at least it made them THINK, and FEEL. and those are good things. don't take their ranting personally. keep doing what you do... after all, it's your life, not theirs, and while they are entitled to their opinions, they have no right to condemn you - or your clients - simply because they disagree with what you choose to do.

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Old Dec 9, 2006, 3:24 PM   #18
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Afternoon RuidosoDigital, thanks for commenting and taking the time to look.

We disigree but that is OK. IMHO this is a board for Panasonic disscussions and photos. What I posted are photos taken by a Panasonic camera and they also may give someone an idea on different ways they might make some extra dollars with their photo equipment. I also believe that a photo that stirs emotion is also a good thing.

Respect for both sides and for all the people involved is what is the most important.

TOTALLY WACKY roger
FZ 30, Nikon TCE17, QuikAim Max RDS, Zeiss Digiscope/Sony W7


RuidosoDigital wrote:
Quote:
Well, I kinda see where those people are coming from. I don't think most people expect to see that kind of stuff on a 'regular' photo forum.

Let's face it, the typical photo enthusiasts tend to be completely the opposite of the typical hunter. I don't want to put it too bluntly because I don't want to possibly offend the wonderful people here, so hopefully you get my drift.

In my younger days I was quite the hunter (slaughterer is probably a more appropriate term). Then I suddenly and permanently quit, while on a hunt, and I feel really bad about every critter I ever shot and therefore I'd rather not see that kind of photo either.

So I can understand the point of view of both sides. Yet I pretty much of agree with the anti-hunting people that commented, even though I also understand that hunting is actually an environmental positive under normal circumstances.

I don't know if there is a hunting site that allows users to post their own photos but I'd stick to something like that rather than posting that sort of stuff on a general photo forum, where you are going to alienate probably 60% of the people that look at them......

In fact if there isn't a user submitted hunting-photo website out there, it might be a great business opportunity for you to start one!
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 3:25 PM   #19
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Good afternoon Don
I also was surprised at the attitude of many. To disagree is a good thing but it needs to be done with respect.

TOTALLY WACKY roger
FZ 30, Nikon TCE17, QuikAim Max RDS, Zeiss Digiscope/Sony W7



d-sr wrote:
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Hi Roger,

You did stir the pot, didn't you. I wouldn't worry about it. We all know that hunting is a sport and some people just don't like it. I'm going with my brother-in-law after Christmas. I'll probably just take my camera but there is nothing wrong with hunting or hunters. It's just a touchy subject to some. I enjoyed your photos and am suprised at the reaction.

Don
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 3:27 PM   #20
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tinosa I hope you are having a good day. Thanks for looking and commenting.

TOTALLY WACKY roger
FZ 30, Nikon TCE17, QuikAim Max RDS, Zeiss Digiscope/Sony W7


tinosa wrote:
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I like the the photos, very powerful, no matter which side of the fence you sit on.
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