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Old Dec 9, 2006, 3:35 PM   #21
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Hi squirl033, thanks for your post.

So far we have had 30 hunters and two did not take their meat home because the country they were from didn't allow it. We called the AMVETS and donated the butchered meat to them to pass out to needy veterans. (The hunters paid the bill for the butchering) The heads are being mounted and the hides made into a rugs. These can be and will be shipped to them.

Our hunts are 6 days long. 1 day at the range to make sure they are good with their gun and 6 days in the field.

We agree emotion IS part of a good photo.

TOTALLY WACKY roger
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Roger,

don't let the whining get to you. some folks can't stomach the idea that the steak on their grill or the Big Mac they had for lunch was once a cow that was slaughtered without a chance. at least the elk have the opportunity to escape their fate. where's the sport in driving a nail gun into a steer's head from a foot away, or stretching gill nets almost completely across a river, like many of the Indian fishermen do up here in the NW?

in this day and age, few people NEED to hunt. most can afford - and prefer - to go to the store and buy their animals already killed, butchered, and neatly wrapped. they don't feel bad about it because they're simply buying a piece of meat, and they give no thought to where it came from. it's all nice an' sanitary, no work, no blood, no mess. most of them have never shouldered a rifle, and would probably be more dangerous to themselves than the elk if they tried. they have no idea of the skill required to make a clean kill with a .270 or .308 at 200 yards or more. they think it's like shooting fish in a barrel, and that the animal has no chance. nothing could be farther from the truth... but you can bet those who complain loudest would be right there squawking if all of a sudden there were no steaks, no pork chops, no chicken drumsticks, and no salmon filets in their grocer's meat case...

i'm not a hunter, but that's not because i object to hunting on any philosophical grounds. hunting is what mankind does. we always have, in one form or another. a thousand years ago, we hunted our own food with bows or spears; now we have giant commercial outfits kill our "prey" for us.i don't see much difference, except in terms of whose hands get dirty. the reason i don't hunt is, to be honest, sheer laziness! it's much easier and more convenient to stop at the store for that steak or whatever than to go tromping through the woods, risking my life at the hands of bozos who think hunting trips are an excuse to get drunk and shoot at anything that moves, then having to haul a carcass out of the hills and carve it up. yes, i've gone hunting, and yes, i've carved up deer to put venison in the freezer. writing a check is just a lot easier, especially at my age.

i'm assuming the folks who go on your guided hunts are as interested infilling their freezers as they are with the challenge of the hunt.i assume too, that they understand thathunting helps keep wild herds from getting too large, and causing animals to die slowly from starvation or disease. in short, they are not the sort to simply kill an animal, take the antlers for a trophy and leave the carcass for thebuzzards. i have no problem with hunting under those conditions. the only kind of hunters ido not like are the ones who don't know what they're doing, who cannot make a clean kill, who don't want the meat and only want the "thrill of the hunt".

this thread should not have turned into a political rant by the PETA crowd. but sometimes photography does stir up emotional responses, and frankly, if it does, you've done your job well. a photo should elicit some reaction, whether it be one of awe, sadness, sympathy, or laughter. a photo that evokes that kind of response is indeed a much more powerful statement than one that people merely look at and move on without a thought.

anyway, sorry to get so long-winded... the main thing i wanted to say was that emotion IS part of a good photo, and just because some people don't like the subject you've chosen doesn't make it a bad photo. at least it made them THINK, and FEEL. and those are good things. don't take their ranting personally. keep doing what you do... after all, it's your life, not theirs, and while they are entitled to their opinions, they have no right to condemn you - or your clients - simply because they disagree with what you choose to do.
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 3:37 PM   #22
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[align=center]Information on the Economic Importance of Hunting and Fishing
[/align]
Hunting is big business. According to information provided by the Animal Use Issues Committee of the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, hunting generates more than $67 billion in economic output in the United States and more than 1 million jobs. On the average in the U.S., each hunter spends $1,896 per year on hunting. That is 5.5 percent of the typical wage earner's annual income.

Not only is it big business, but hunting is a thriving business. Retail sales have grown nearly 17 percent since 1991. Even when economic times are tough, people continue to spend time and money on hunting. After September 11, 2001, much of the travel industry suffered a sharp decline. Hunters kept to their travels supporting local motels, restaurants, gas stations and other businesses.

And finally, hunting is a healthy business. Literally. There are many health benefits to being an active outdoorsman. It is an American tradition that encompasses most ethnical, racial, religious and political boundaries. It involves family and friends. It brings a sense of stewarding to the land, the environment and all things wild.

As big as hunting is in America, fishing is even bigger. There are 44.3 million anglers that contribute to an estimated $116 billion overall economic output in the U.S. The average angler spends over $1,200 every year on the sport. That includes $41.5 billion in retail sales and $7.3 billion in state and federal taxes. The fishing industry supports over 1 million jobs in America and $30 billion in wages (more than created by corporate giants like Microsoft, Nike or Ford).

TOTALLY WACKY roger
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Old Dec 9, 2006, 9:25 PM   #23
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I am humbled, I did not realise that by giving my opinion that the pictures were disturbing and that I consider the hunting of non-aggressive animals despicable, I was helping to turn the thread into a political rant by the PETA (I don't even know what that is) crowd.

I think that is was BobC a year ago who dared state that he objected to a spider being killed in order for a photograph to be takenthat brought on about four pages of villification. We haven't heard from him since!


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Old Dec 9, 2006, 10:12 PM   #24
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What is PETA????

So far I have found two different definitions.

PETA: "People Eating Tasty Animals")

I believe this is the group you are talking about

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

Some interesting information about PETA

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

Bootneck3 wrote:
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I am humbled, I did not realise that by giving my opinion that the pictures were disturbing and that I consider the hunting of non-aggressive animals despicable, I was helping to turn the thread into a political rant by the PETA (I don't even know what that is) crowd.

I think that is was BobC a year ago who dared state that he objected to a spider being killed in order for a photograph to be takenthat brought on about four pages of villification. We haven't heard from him since!

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Old Dec 10, 2006, 3:44 AM   #25
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Roger, nothing wrong with your photos,but I think this forum is not the place to show them.
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Old Dec 10, 2006, 12:42 PM   #26
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No disrespect intended but I disagree for two reasons.

1. They are Panasonic FZ30 photos

2. The photos may give some of the folks that read this formun a new idea on how to make some extra money with their panasonic cameras.

Thanks for looking and commenting.

TOTALLY WACKY roger
FZ 30, Nikon TCE17, QuikAim Max RDS, Zeiss Digiscope/Sony W7




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Roger, nothing wrong with your photos,but I think this forum is not the place to show them.
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Old Dec 10, 2006, 1:09 PM   #27
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Bootneck3 wrote:
Quote:
I am humbled, I did not realise that by giving my opinion that the pictures were disturbing and that I consider the hunting of non-aggressive animals despicable, I was helping to turn the thread into a political rant by the PETA (I don't even know what that is) crowd.

I think that is was BobC a year ago who dared state that he objected to a spider being killed in order for a photograph to be takenthat brought on about four pages of villification. We haven't heard from him since!
Fred, it's obvious you were referring to my comments, since i'm the one who mentioned PETA. Don't take it personally - i wasn't referring to your post, but to the folks who posted thehateful, mean-spirited comments on the DPReview thread Roger originally linked to.

i personally don't hunt, but i don't care if someone chooses to, as long as they eatwhat they kill. i don't have the slightest respect for the poachers and trophy hunters who kill an animal only for its horns or hide or whatever. as i mentioned in my earlier post, it's a simple fact that humans have ALWAYS killed other animals for food, the only difference now is that we don't have to all go tromping around with spears to do it - we simply go to the corner store to buy it already killed, butchered and neatly wrapped with fancy names like "Sirloin" or "Rib Eye". if you eat steaks, bacon, burgers, or fish - or even chicken soup - you're by default supporting the death of non-aggressive animals, whether you go out and shoot them yourself or not.hunters merely choose to get their meat the old-fashioned (and much more difficult)way, by stalking, killing, butchering and carrying it home themselves, rather than letting some giant corporation do it for them. in that respect, they're much more sporting and intellectually honest thanthose who protest the killing of animals but keep their freezers full of beef roast, chicken or pork.

like Roger, i believe that this is a free country, and that people have the right to choose whether or not to engage in this activity. if some folks don't like it, that's their right - they're perfectly entitled to their choices and opinions, and i respect their right tothose opinions. however, i find it offensive when they try to impose their self-righteous views on others, or resort to hate speech and personal attacks simply because someone takes a photo of someone else doing something they don't agree with! if they dislike the photo for photographic reasons, fine... but to attack the photographer or launch into a bitter tirade because they don't like the subject matter? please...


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Old Dec 10, 2006, 6:36 PM   #28
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thehotel wrote:
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No disrespect intended but I disagree for two reasons.

1. They are Panasonic FZ30 photos

2. The photos may give some of the folks that read this formun a new idea on how to make some extra money with their panasonic cameras.
Roger, I'm afraid I also have to disagree:

1. No matter what model Panasonic you have, this is not the place for polemic photography. Next thing you know, postings will include blood stained shots, on-the-scene accident photos, war casualties photos, etc. Catch my drift ??

2. To make money ain'tthe reason why mostpeople buy their consumer type cameras for. That would be bestfor suited forthe DSLR forum, and there you won't see postedany shocking photos either.



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Old Dec 10, 2006, 6:50 PM   #29
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jotajota wrote:
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thehotel wrote:
Quote:
No disrespect intended but I disagree for two reasons.

1. They are Panasonic FZ30 photos

2. The photos may give some of the folks that read this formun a new idea on how to make some extra money with their panasonic cameras.
Roger, I'm afraid I also have to disagree:

1. No matter what model Panasonic you have, this is not the place for polemic photography. Next thing you know, postings will include blood stained shots, on-the-scene accident photos, war casualties photos, etc. Catch my drift ??

2. To make money ain'tthe reason why mostpeople buy their consumer type cameras for. That would be bestfor suited forthe DSLR forum, and there you won't see postedany shocking photos either.
if you find a photo of a hunter with his kill "shocking", i'd hate to see what you'd think of something really disturbing... how do you cope with the newspaper or Time magazine?

as for making money, if someone has the ablity to make money with ANY kind of camera, why shouldn't they? and who are you to tell them what forum that is "suited for"?

sorry... you guys need to lighten up, relax, and chill out. it's a picture, okay? get a grip...
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Old Dec 10, 2006, 7:10 PM   #30
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squirl033 wrote:
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if you find a photo of a hunter with his kill "shocking", i'd hate to see what you'd think of something really disturbing... how do you cope with the newspaper or Time magazine?

as for making money, if someone has the ablity to make money with ANY kind of camera, why shouldn't they? and who are you to tell them what forum that is "suited for"?

sorry... you guys need to lighten up, relax, and chill out. it's a picture, okay? get a grip...
Sheezz man,talk about chilling out !! Give the example, start with yourself.

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