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Old Jun 6, 2007, 6:30 PM   #1
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When I first got my FZ50 I played around with RAW a little and didnt really find any advantages. And I didnt save any of the shots I took.

Now I want to give RAW another try. So afterimdone doingmy PPwork in Silkypix I want to save that RAW shot in MY PICTURES and then make a JPG from the finished RAW shot. I cannot figure out how to doeither. Any help with these questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Steve


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Old Jun 7, 2007, 5:29 PM   #2
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RTM method should work here..

Try the Help funktion, and read section 8.1.1

Anyway if u don't need raw don't use it because the filesize is quite large compared to Jpeg
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Old Jun 7, 2007, 5:57 PM   #3
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Serafin wrote:
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So afterimdone doingmy PPwork in Silkypix I want to save that RAW shot in MY PICTURES and then make a JPG from the finished RAW shot. I cannot figure out how to doeither. Any help with these questions would be much appreciated.
A raw file is unprocessed data from the sensor, and is not viewable or editable by most programs. This data has to go through a demosaic process and more for that (since each pixel is only sensitive to one color and the demosaic process built into a raw converter is designed to use some complex algorithms to look at adjacent pixels and assign values for all 3 colors (red, green and blue) to each pixel.

Short answer:

You can't edit a raw file and save it as a raw file.

You need to save it in a different format after the conversion from raw (use tiff, jpeg, or other commonly used formats, depending on what's supported by the converter you're using).


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Old Jun 7, 2007, 9:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
You can't edit a raw file and save it as a raw file.

You need to save it in a different format after the conversion from raw (use tiff, jpeg, or other commonly used formats, depending on what's supported by the converter you're using).

I am not sure that is correct.......I use NX for editing my D50 Raw file (NEFs) and I can save them as Nefs... And then open them again in NX and change or cancel the edit.

That is where Panasonic is cheating us, by not giving or selling us a converter that understands the file.
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Old Jun 7, 2007, 9:48 PM   #5
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genece wrote:
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I am not sure that is correct.......I use NX for editing my D50 Raw file (NEFs) and I can save them as Nefs... And then open them again in NX and change or cancel the edit.
It's not directly editing the raw data. It's storing a list of edits that are applied (or can be cancelled) for the way you see that image in NX after it converts it from raw for viewing when you load the image. The edits are applied at that point.

A raw file is not a viewable image. A complex demosaic process is being performed by the raw converter to give it to you on screen, and there are a number of different approaches to doing that. Here are a couple of papers describing some of the more common algorithms to try and "guess" the RGB values that should be used at a given pixel location.

http://www.dalibor.cz/files/Ting%20C...erpolation.pdf

http://www.ece.gatech.edu/research/l.../bahadir05.pdf

Basically, a converter like NX is going through this process when it loads a .nef file, then applies the changes you made when you had the image loaded last. The original raw data from the sensor hasn't been modified (so, other programs can't understand what you did to it). To get to that point, you need to convert the raw file to a standard, viewable/editable image format that has values for red, green and blue stored at each pixel location.

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That is where Panasonic is cheating us, by not giving or selling us a converter that understands the file.
Most raw files are proprietary. Nikon's files are actually more proprietary compared to most. That's because they encrypt metadata related to the as shot white balance in the .nef files generated by their newer camera models (that practice started with the D2x, then went on to the D2Hs, then the D50 and newer cameras).

Basically, a raw file has a header that contains information about camera settings used. That way, a raw converter that can interpret this data can apply it to the raw image as it's being converted.

But, Nikon decided to start encrypting some of this metadata. Fortunately, software developers like Dave Coffin (author of dcraw.c) and Eric Hyman (author of Bibble) managed to crack the encryption. Dave actually publishes his source code. That way, other developers can use it to interpret the encrypted metadata, if they are not afraid they'll be sued by Nikon or prosecuted as criminals under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act).

That did hold up Adobe for a while (they initially refused to support the as shot white balance information for the D2x when it was first introduced, apparently because they were worried about being in violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act if they decrypted it. But, a compromise was eventually reached, and Nikon supplied Adobe with a Software Developer's kit to decrypt this information, while still allowing Adobe to use their own demosaic algorithms. But, the data is still encrypted.

AFAIK, Panasonic has not resorted to those kinds of tactics to try and stifle competition and force users to buy their software for raw conversion to get best results.

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Old Jun 7, 2007, 10:13 PM   #6
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P.S.

Here is a site with lots of information on the problems we face because of undocumented, proprietary raw file formats (and that's most of them).

http://www.openraw.org/info


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Old Jun 8, 2007, 8:08 AM   #7
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Thanks ....a bit over my head......but I imagine I have a little better understanding now.
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