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Old Oct 6, 2003, 7:36 PM   #1
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Default RAW output?

RAW output would add icing to a very attractive cake and make it a real contender in my book. Bob, do you think it might happen?
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Old Oct 7, 2003, 8:49 AM   #2
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My guess - they are just tweaking the firmware, not making significant changes like adding RAW capability.
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Old Oct 8, 2003, 10:53 AM   #3
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No, you will not see RAW on the FZ10 - that I can say for sure.
I've suggested it and can only hope that future offerings will include it.
Thanks
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Old Oct 8, 2003, 12:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic
No, you will not see RAW on the FZ10 - that I can say for sure.
I've suggested it and can only hope that future offerings will include it.
Will it be technically possible to add RAW as a firmware upgrade or does "future offering" refer to subsequent cameras?

Thank you,
Alex.
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Old Oct 8, 2003, 3:08 PM   #5
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Subsequent cameras
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Old Oct 8, 2003, 8:08 PM   #6
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Well, they should at least offer the option of jpeg superfine or
tiff. I can see that the fz10 has neither, and the file sizes are
smaller than other 4MP cameras with jpeg superfine.

I don't understand why they don't want the best possible image quality out of the camera?

Guess the're saving it for the fz11.
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Old Oct 9, 2003, 1:59 AM   #7
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Default raw - superfine, etc

Raw would be nice for its other virtues - but if the samples I have downloaded and printed are real-world samples I don't think superfine is really needed! I think maybe the Venus software is partly resposible for the high quality output...
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Old Oct 9, 2003, 5:55 AM   #8
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Hi Bob... I've heard the arguments before about balancing the amount of compression / file sizes and responsiveness of the camera.... But as before people will be expecting top notch images with the Leica lens and will no doubt complain bitterly if jpeg compression artifacts limit image quality.

Regarding the FZ10 ..Please use all your powers of persuasiveness to either get FINE mode to be a lower compression than existed on the FZ1. Or persuade them to include a SUPER FINE compression mode ... even if it has to include a warning than camera responsiveness might be slightly worse. I'm sure many people would appreciate this.

Ironically I'm aware that lower compression ratios also have the potential to make the basic image noise more visible...but overall quality (esp detail) definately improves in my tests.... I am guessing the FZ10 will include some kind of hardware noise reduction to combat this ? After reading widely on the subject it appears that image noise is the real enemy since it dramatically increases file sizes whilst simultaneously reducing image quality.


At the end of the day however it is possible the Instruction Manual is most at fault since just a few lines of 'education' on these issues could save a mountain of grief latter on. The FZ1 english manuals could certainly have been a lot better. I hate to see a great piece of engineering let down on the final stages.

OK I'm rambling now.

Just my 2 cents.
Keep up the good work.
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Old Oct 9, 2003, 10:34 AM   #9
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Thanks for your response Bob. On reflection, I suppose it would be shooting oneself in the foot to provide RAW output for the FZ10. The Venus engine probably has a host of very sophisticated functions to smooth out the limitations of a small sensor, which the hit-or-miss efforts of a home-processor would find difficult to emulate, in order to equal the published images, which are certainly very impressive, for the high level of JPEG compressiion employed.
As you have indicated elsewhere, RAW output will have to await a new model. Perhaps a new generation with a larger sensor - which will probably requre a new lens with a larger image circle.
Ever onwards and upwards!
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Old Oct 9, 2003, 2:00 PM   #10
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[quote="dres"]Hi Bob... I've heard the arguments before about balancing the amount of compression / file sizes and responsiveness of the camera.... But as before people will be expecting top notch images with the Leica lens and will no doubt complain bitterly if jpeg compression artifacts limit image quality.

<Response>
Yup..
I suppose people believe we (here in NJ) have the ability to dictate what "we" want. We don't. In most cases the product will be representative of what the broad market wants, but we also recognize that there will be those who will always ask why wasn't this or that included? The only direct and honest answer I can give is "because it wasn't." No justification is provided.


Regarding the FZ10 ..Please use all your powers of persuasiveness to either get FINE mode to be a lower compression than existed on the FZ1. Or persuade them to include a SUPER FINE compression mode ... even if it has to include a warning than camera responsiveness might be slightly worse. I'm sure many people would appreciate this.

<RESPONSE>
Once the product is presented to us the features are final. Changes will be based on performance, not modification.


Ironically I'm aware that lower compression ratios also have the potential to make the basic image noise more visible...but overall quality (esp detail) definately improves in my tests.... I am guessing the FZ10 will include some kind of hardware noise reduction to combat this ?
<RESPONSE>
At this time I don't have any detailed information in the way of service manuals or design theory. The priority now is to focus on operational performance.


After reading widely on the subject it appears that image noise is the real enemy since it dramatically increases file sizes whilst simultaneously reducing image quality.
<RESPONSE>
That's true, but the method i which you process the image has alot to do with it. RGB processing produces a much cleaner image than complimentry color processing. The FZ1 is a fine example of that.


At the end of the day however it is possible the Instruction Manual is most at fault since just a few lines of 'education' on these issues could save a mountain of grief latter on. The FZ1 english manuals could certainly have been a lot better. I hate to see a great piece of engineering let down on the final stages.
<RESPONSE>
I strongly agree, but if the manual is too technical it also generates a lot of fall-out to our call center. The manual must be a fine mixture of information presented in a way so as not to confuse the beginner.
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