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Old Feb 9, 2004, 10:14 AM   #1
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Default PowerShot S1 IS vs. Panasonic DMC-FZ10

http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/ca...4_s1is_pr.html

So, what do you think of the new Canon S1? Will it be "better" than the FZ10?


From the looks of it (I wish we had some sample pictures...) I don't like the lower resolution and smaller size of the CCD. However I believe (if my calculations are correct) the Canon's pixels will be very slightly biggers, so there will not be as much image noise.

However you could just take a full res shot with the Panasonic, and resize it smaller to the size of the S1's pictures and you probably wouldn't even notice the noise.

Canon has a smaller LCD
Canon has a smaller zoom lense (only 10x)
Canon has a better movie mode
Canon has a dimmer lense (F3.1 at full telephoto, as compared to the f2.8 on the panasonic)
Canon has a better burst shoting (at least it can take a total of more shots, but at a smaller FPS)
From the looks of the sample pictures from Canon, it can take really clear and colorful pictures. However, of course, they are probably took lots of pictures and only kept the very best for showing online ( http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/s1is/sample.html )
Canon has Compact Flash (which is good or bad)
Canon has a swivel LCD
A lot of the other stuff seems to be fairly similar
Canon takes AA (which may be good or bad, depends on what you like)


I like Panasonic's design a LOT more, I never really like the compact feel of so many other cameras. And from the looks of it, the Canon S1 is on the smallish side of things. And if the IS works in a similar way, you could probably get sharper pictures from the Panasonic because you can hold it much more steady.

Of course I haven't held the Canon yet, so I can't really judge that part.


As I don't know much about optics. Is the Canon lense better in any way than the Panasonics? With my very limited knowledege of lenses, the only numbers than make sense to me are the zoom and the F stops. And on both of those Panasonic wins.

I ordered my DMC-FZ10 about a week ago (will be coming very soon). I just hope that I choose the right camera... From the looks of it I did. Because the things that Canon does better (Movie, swivel LCD) I don't really need. However, it looks like the price of the Canon will be less than Panasonic's (MSRP of $500 as to Panasonics $600). So street prices will (in a few months) be $400 for the Canon (and probably similar for Panasonic, now that they have some competition)

Any thoughts on the cameras or thoughts on my thoughts are more than welcome.

Also, does anyone know when they are going to be sold? I really want some professional reviews on image quality (but I can't expect it for a while)
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Old Feb 9, 2004, 12:40 PM   #2
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I can see as many controls from the front as the FZ10 has on the entire camera. Iím guessing it is a camera worthy of Canon rather than just a great lens on a poor camera. Canon got some of that smaller size by using a smaller 3Mp CCD, and that isnít enough for 13 X 19 prints from my wide format printer I have become addicted to Ė 4Mp isnít enough either but not as bad as 3Mp. Super fine mode on the Canon might help some but not enough to make up for the missing Mp.

The swivel LCDs are something anyone would use. You can take shots from over your head or waist level or near the ground. Or get candid shots by not standing behind the camera in the normal shooting stance. Nice feature. I hardly ever use the LCD on my cameras with EVF, but I would use a swivel LCD.

High res movies at 30fps are also nice. I know it isnít a video camera, but your still camera is often the only thing you have with you. The little movies on the FZ10 are about useless.

CF is the card of choice for that type of camera. People with DSLRs or other good cameras might want a smaller camera with a stabilized zoom to carry around and would be more likely to pick one up if they already have cards. SD is a choice that approaches being silly for a large camera of that type.

The Canon appears to have a quality flash rather than the pitiful unit on the FZ10.

I donít see any threads on the Canon lens. Maybe you need some sort of adapter to attach filters and converters. The thing would have to come with a lens hood Ė right?

Canon knows stabilization. I have a pair of Canon stabilized binoculars that are great and I think the stabilized UZI lens was Canon along with their Pro model. I have no complaints about the Leica stabilization Ė or anything else about that lens. But the Canon is going to work well also. Things like CA and noise remain to be seen.

The camera is going to be almost as heavy as the FZ10 once you load 4 NiMH AAs into the thing. Panasonic had to make compromises by going to too small a proprietary battery, but I think 4 AAs are a bit much in this day of more efficient electronics. It might be another smart move like the CF cards to lure people to the camera as a specialty camera since DSLR owners are already likely to own AAs.

I wish someone like Canon or Minolta or Nikon had designed a 4Mp camera for that great Leica lens rather than Panasonic, but the FZ10 takes good pictures. I wouldnít grieve over having ordered one or send it back waiting for the Canon tests. It is a little irritating that it has no more physical controls than an entry level P&S, but the menus are well designed.
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Old Feb 9, 2004, 3:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: PowerShot S1 IS vs. Panasonic DMC-FZ10

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinblue
So, what do you think of the new Canon S1? Will it be "better" than the FZ10?
> I don't like the lower resolution and smaller size of the CCD.

3.2MP at 1/2.7" vs. 4MP at 1/2.5". I'll prefer the former.

> Canon has a smaller LCD

But...

> Canon has a swivel LCD

... which is more useful, IMHO.

> Canon has a smaller zoom lense (only 10x)

10x is a meaningless figure. You should be comparing 35mm equivalen focal lengths.
Canon: 38-380mm
Panasonic: 35-420mm

Panasonic has the edge at both wide and telephoto ends but it is not a dramatic one.

> Canon has a better movie mode

"Better" does not even begin to describe it.
640x480 @30fps
22Khz 16bit audio
Full use of zoom, auto focus, auto exposure and white balance during movie capture.

> Canon has a dimmer lense (F3.1 at full telephoto, as compared to the f2.8 on the panasonic)

1/3 EV. Not a big deal.

> Canon has a better burst shoting (at least it can take a total of more shots, but at a smaller FPS)

Longer bursts (24) but slower rate (1.7 fps).

> Canon has Compact Flash (which is good or bad)

Good now, bad in a couple of years.

> A lot of the other stuff seems to be fairly similar

Panasonic has a hotshoe, Canon does not.

> Canon takes AA (which may be good or bad, depends on what you like)

4xAA.
Good for flexibility and battery life, bad for weight.

> I like Panasonic's design a LOT more, I never really like the
> compact feel of so many other cameras. And from the looks of it,
> the Canon S1 is on the smallish side of things.

Smaller than the FZ1! For some, it would be an advantage.

> And if the IS works in a similar way, you could probably get
> sharper pictures from the Panasonic because you can hold it
> much more steady.

Weight (with batteries) is similar.

> As I don't know much about optics. Is the Canon lense better in
> any way than the Panasonics?

Unknown. Probably not but we'll see.

> Any thoughts on the cameras or thoughts on my thoughts are more than welcome.

Competition is good for the customers.
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Old Feb 9, 2004, 4:22 PM   #4
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Canon Lenses are typically top of the line.
I would expect the same from the S1.
Unless.....
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Old Feb 9, 2004, 4:47 PM   #5
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>3.2MP at 1/2.7" vs. 4MP at 1/2.5". I'll prefer the former.
Humm, I guess I would need to see sample pictures to see if the noise levels are about the same.

>Panasonic has a hotshoe, Canon does not.
Very good point, I didn't notice that. Well now I feel a bit better about getting the FZ10

>Competition is good for the customers.
Unless you already bought the camera before the competition arrived

>Weight (with batteries) is similar.
True, but the S1 is meant to be held with one hand (unless the pictures are really messing up what the size of the camera really is), but the FZ10 has the big lense which you could hold with your second hand.
Of course some people might prefer the smaller size of the S1, but not me.


I can't find anywhere that says that it has a live histogram. Whereas the FZ10 does


Well I remember seeing somewhere that it is going to be sold in April. And since I need a camera by March 1st (I am leaving to Germany) I need it soon.

At dpreview.com it says that it has a "street price of $499". Does that mean a MSRP or something that a company would really sell it at?



Well I am glad that I won't be using a digital camera for taking any important movies (I have a camcorder for that). And I am glad that for the most part, my picture taking would not require the swivel, as it seems to be only of any real usefulness if you are taking pictures in a crowd (and for the small amount I will be doing that, I could probably guess where to point).

It does take amazing videos, however, the video mentioned below is 12MB for only 7 seconds of video. That is only a 10 minute video for a 1 gigabyte file.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=7587573




I really want some professional reviews...
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Old Feb 9, 2004, 9:31 PM   #6
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>> 3.2MP at 1/2.7" vs. 4MP at 1/2.5". I'll prefer the former.
> Humm, I guess I would need to see sample pictures to see if the noise levels are about the same.

True. However, this is the same sensor as the one used in the A70 and the SD100 so noise charachteristics should be similar unless Canon changed the noise reduction algorithm.

>> Competition is good for the customers.
> Unless you already bought the camera before the competition arrived

Yea, me too... But try to look at the big picture.

>> Weight (with batteries) is similar.
> True, but the S1 is meant to be held with one hand (unless the pictures are really messing up what the size of the camera really is), but the FZ10 has the big lense which you could hold with your second hand.

I have an FZ1 which is almost the same size as the S1 and I mostly use 2 hands.

> Of course some people might prefer the smaller size of the S1, but not me.

That would be me. I did not buy the FZ10 because of it's size (I wanted a camera that would fit in a coat pocket). On paper, the S1 looks like an improvement over the FZ1/FZ2 in most categories.

> At dpreview.com it says that it has a "street price of $499". Does that mean a MSRP or something that a company would really sell it at?

$499 is the MSRP.

> It does take amazing videos, however, the video mentioned below is 12MB for only 7 seconds of video. That is only a 10 minute video for a 1 gigabyte file.

I understand that the S1 has two high-res video modes, normal and fine. I guess the difference will be in the compression.

> I really want some professional reviews...

You'll get them from all the major sites.
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Old Feb 9, 2004, 11:07 PM   #7
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According to DPreview.com the S1 also doesn't have a RAW or Tiff format. I would have guessed that they would add it (as it shouldn't be too hard) if they wanted another reason to go with the S1 instead of the FZ10 (which seems to be the only competition for IS cameras in that price range). But they might save that for the S3 (at least there is a rumor that such a camera exists).

Well I am eagerly awaiting the new cameras to be released.
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Old Feb 10, 2004, 1:09 PM   #8
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TIFF is an impractical file format for digital cameras IMO. Raw has a lot of advantages and I personally prefer it, but many people donít want to mess with it. Unless you have Photoshop 8 you have to decode the raw in special software and it takes a while for a hundred photos. My main reason for getting a faster computer was for converting my raw files to TIFF, and it still takes a while Ė just not an eternity as it did before.

But for common use SHQ JPG is every bit as good as TIFF at around 1/4 the size. I defy anyone to tell the difference between a true SHQ and TIFF. Iím assuming the SHQ is equivalent to Photoshopís JPG quality 12 like the A1. Where raw allows you to set white balance, saturation, contrast and sharpening in the software just as if you had set it in the camera, TIFF has no such advantage. In most advanced cameras you can even get a higher bit rate TIFF from a raw file. I see no reason for TIFF at all with SHQ. But it is a feather in the S1 cap that it has SHQ where the FZ10 doesnít.

I think there is a lot more to an articulated LCD than just shooting over crowds. A shot taken from over your head or at waist level or from near the ground can be better than eye-level for many shots. And the ability to capture candids would also be nice.
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