Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Panasonic / Leica

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jun 3, 2004, 1:02 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,748
Default

I have used my newly calibratedRebel DSLR with Canon IS USM L 70-200 and Sigma 50-500 along with 2x APO teleconverterfor a few weeks now. I had to send my FZ10 back for a fix on the manual focus button on the left side of the lens. I find myself missing my FZ10, it's convenience, it's dynamic power with the 1.5 F2.8 extender, the quick burst mode. The only thing that I have found to be the advantage with the Rebel and multi-thousand dollar lenses is the ability for the DSLR to go to a 400 or 800 ISO with respectable results and the abiility to stop down more on aperture. Beyond that I see absolutely no advantage. In fact, I look back at some of the photos taken with the FZ10 (and a bit of Neat Image processing) and the only extreme difference that I can personally see is the dynamic background blur, or bokeh. Other than that I honestly see very little difference between the two. I look forward to getting my FZ10 back and hope that Panasonic will make an FZ10 with larger sensor -- even full sized -- with the same lens. Now that would be a wonderful camera as far as I'm concerned because the ISO problem would be reduced substantially.
Normcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Jun 3, 2004, 2:53 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 579
Default

Normcar wrote:
Quote:
In fact, I look back at some of the photos taken with the FZ10 (and a bit of Neat Image processing) and the only extreme difference that I can personally see is the dynamic background blur, or bokeh. Other than that I honestly see very little difference between the two.
Hmmm, are you sure about this? I suppose Canon's 70-200L USM is approximately identical to Nikon's AFS 70-200VR F2.8. With a TC-14E II, the AFS 70-200VR becomes 98-280mm F4 VR. Puttting it on a D70/D100/D1/D2 with a multiplier factor of 1.5, the maximum focal length is 420mm, exactly identical to that of the FZ-10. So, here is my comparison between FZ-10 and D70 plus AFS 70-200VR F2.8 with TC-14E II: http://www.onlinephotographers.com/y...;threadid=8982 It is near the bottom of that thread.

CK

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam

Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500/5700 User Guide




shene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 3, 2004, 5:51 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
bobbyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,423
Default

I don't have fz10 (only fz1v2 user here) but the biggest problem I see is the noise, which is almost not there in dSLR world (as compared to consumer digicams). I am thinking of buying the canon 10D along with the 100-400IS lens for my bird shots. I have looked at the pictures taken by (other users using 10D) and there is night & day difference in what I get from my little fz1. That doesn't mean I don't like my fz1. I am very happy with the $400 I spent on it. It is a great travel camera but if Panasonic were to increase the sesnsor size, the lens will be much bigger and you won't be able to buy the fz10 for $500.
bobbyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 3, 2004, 11:07 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44
Default

I've looked at lots of Canon Rebel shots with their stabilized lens and lots of pictures from the Panasonic FZ10. For the most part I'd have to say that the Rebel pictures looks sharper because the background has less grain and makes the subject stand out better. Still I've seen some absolutely ugly Rebel pictures. Some of the problems are that the picture was out of focus to begin with or the subject lacks contrast. I've yet to learn all that I need to know about my Panasonic FZ10. I've yet to take perfectly consistent photos. This is the result of understanding how my camera works and has nothing to do with the quality of the camera and lens. The bottom line is the actual use of the pictures you take. Are they for printing or viewing on a website like PBase ? There is so much to learn about photography that has nothing to do with the price of the equipment you have. Noise is important but if you can't get the picture because of equipment limitations well ... you haven't done anything.
SoOregon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 3, 2004, 11:35 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 272
Default

I also have an FZ10 and a Drebel with the same lenses that Norm mentioned above. The Sigma 50-500 has a maximum aperture of 6.3 at 500mm and no IS. It weighs over 4 pounds (almost 2 kilos) *without* the camera. The Canon lens is only 200mm and costs $1700US. Granted, the Drebel does take better pictures, especially in terms of low noise, but dollar-for-dollar the FZ10 is a much better buy and much, mucheasier to carry around.
Guerito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2004, 10:27 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 141
Default

Norm,

I think I'm somewhere in the middle with this type of question. Shene has a link to a question I posted on another site. I'm pretty satisfied with my FZ-10 and get better results all of the time. But, I get tempted by the features of a DSLR like the Nikon D70, especially for sports. There is something to be said for a great and versatile $600 camera. I may hint at the D70 as a Father's Day gift for myself to my wife. Think I have a chance?

I didn't either...
srvsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6, 2004, 1:11 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,748
Default

I'm still waiting to get my FZ10 back from warrenty repair (the manual focus button on the left side of the lens barrel). Since then I've gotten my Rebel back and purchased a 70-200 IS USM L lens along with a 1.4 Canon teleconverter. I also have a Sigma 50-500 that I use when the light is good and the subject distance is longer than average. With all of this I still cannot reach what I can with the FZ10 and 1.5 teleconverter with 2.8 aperture across the board. The only thing that reduces the quality of the image is demand for increase in ISO, since this is the area where the FZ10 falls short, primarily because it's sensor is smaller than a DSLR. The answer to this difficulty, as I've said before, is to shoot with the FZ10 only in good light, then the ISO and small sensor problem becomes mute and the camera shines to the point of taking photographs that are comparable to a DSLR with $5000 and more in lenses.

If Panasonic ever decides to build an FZ10 model with a large sensor, comparable to the Rebel or even larger, I'd be willing to pay for it. I hope Panasonic is considering such a venture, because I am completely "sold" on the 12x opticallens and the 1.5 teleconverter combination. At 50 ISO they cannot be beaten, and their reach is comparable to DSLR combinations that weigh 10 pounds or more.

I'm terrible at math but I'm getting the idea of F stops and shutter and ISO. The FZ10 rocks if ISO remains at 50. Since it has an across the board aperture of 2.8 right up to 630mm, then the potential of leaving ISO at 50 isn't weird. If I need light comparable to ISO 200, then I simply open my aperture 2 stops and I have the same amount of light to work with. If your floor is 2.8 rather than 4 or higher then the option for light is available. And a floor of 2.8 at 630mm is pretty amazing to me, expecially with a combination that weighs less than a 70-200 IS USM L lens alone. The nice thing about the 2.8 across-the-board aperture (even with teleconverter) allows for inventiveness in gaining light without increasing ISO.

One more thing... Panasonic has decided to make it difficult for people to use the 1.5 teleconverter on other lenses. For instance, I cannot put it on the end of my 70-200 IS USM L Canon lens because the screw threads won't work, they've put a bevel edge that stops us from doing that.I'm going to find a way, though, if I have to get someone to tool a stepdown ring. And I'm going to do it just because I think that extender rocks and want to see what it will do on the end of the Canon 70-200.

Shene, if anyone on earth can figure out how to put this converter on to a 70-200 Canon, it's you. Any suggestions? As well, I can't seem to use my Canon 1.4x converter on my Sigma 50-500. Do you have any idea what sort of thing I need to do this?



Normcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6, 2004, 8:46 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
12HT75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11
Default

Normcar wrote:
Quote:
If Panasonic ever decides to build an FZ10 model with a large sensor, comparable to the Rebel or even larger, I'd be willing to pay for it.
Yeah, me too!

Peter
12HT75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6, 2004, 1:29 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 88
Default

Normcar,

There is no chance that a larger sensor can be fitted to the FZ10. The image wouldn't be any larger than it now is and so wouldn't cover the extra area of the sensor. The only hope is to use Foveon technology where you get all three primary colors from each point of the sensor.
parallel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6, 2004, 8:01 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 394
Default

I am enjoying this conversation. I have been debating getting the Rebel but have been so pleased with my Fz10, I keep asking myself "what for?" and have gone back to shooting some slides with a Leica Minilux. I can carry both the FZ10 and a good high quality film point and shoot without much trouble.
normc is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 PM.