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Old Jun 30, 2004, 6:56 PM   #31
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Dachshund,

On most of your indoor shots without flash the auto white balance isn't very accurate , try to use manual white balance on a white wall or a piece of white (printer) paper. To catch the mood of a low lit scene (e.g. a candle light dinner) use a -2 EV setting to catch the mood, otherwise the camera will try to create a daylight lit picture. This also shortens the shutter time giving you aincreased chance for a successful shot.

You will find lots of FZ10 info and tips here:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/vkelim/DMCFZ10/index.html

Good luck, Klaas Bloem
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Old Jun 30, 2004, 9:17 PM   #32
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u guys are really and extremely helpful...
thanks so much for all the tips.

i'll play around with the camera and let u guys know pretty soon...

have a good day everyone...
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Old Jun 30, 2004, 9:59 PM   #33
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Panasonic wrote:
Quote:
I took a quick look at several photos, manyof which were shot without a flash, often exposures that are a bit too long for being hand held. I don't think anything is wrong with the camera - just the way it's being used.

One shot of what appears to be the light on a ceiling is a good case in point. The bright light will cause the iris to shut down producing a very dark back drop.

Just curious, what camer were you using previously?

Take a few shots outdoors and post those.
Are you serious? Then pleasewhoever is interestedlook at these pictures (all EXIF data present - please check it out):

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...t_of_focus.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...t_of_focus.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...t_of_focus.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...ocus_stage.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view..._of_focus3.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view..._of_focus4.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...ed_outdoor.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...osed_flash.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...t_of_focus.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...d_outdoor3.jpg

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/view...area_noise.jpg

What shutter speed does it needs to be hand-held usable? 1/250? I've taken hundreds of pictures with various cameras at 1/30 without a tripod and they were perfectly fine.

The digital camera I used before was Casio QV-2100UX.I can post some pictures I've taken with that camera (which was never considered to be really high quality) to compare. I've never had any problem with focusing or over/underexposure with it as long as it was locked to the object which was actually pretty good even at low light (conditions when FZ10 takes forever to focus).

I really appressiate all you guys help - I listened and tried every of your advice. Unfortunately I had no luck. If Panasonic Bob's conclusion is that this camera is fine and it's just the way it is or I don't use it properly - then, I think, it's just a really bad product...

P.S. I'll make few other shot in next few days but I don't know what is going to change...
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Old Jun 30, 2004, 10:26 PM   #34
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Well let's start with the outdoor shots:

The "overexposed" picture was taken in spot mode, probably metered on the dark clothes of the girl. When using spot mode you have to carefully watch the EVF and histogram untill you think the exposure is OK before you half press the shutter.

With the "underexposed" picture you should have used spot mode but this time you had your camera in matrix metering mode while shooting a shadow object against a bright sky.

Both are classic beginner mistakes and have nothing to do with your camera.

You may be better of selling your FZ10 and go back to a fully automatic point and shooter? (or read some books about photography starting with the MANUAL)

When I find the time I will take a look at your other examples.

Klaas Bloem
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Old Jun 30, 2004, 10:41 PM   #35
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If you're wanting the 12x stabilized Leica lens, but more of a point-n-shoot type camera like the Casio, maybe you should look at the FZ1 or FZ2? I'm very happy with my FZ1, and have been taking no-excuse, pretty much just dumb luck great pictures with it for well over a year now. I have some of my best shots in "Simple" mode, which for the FZ1 is a mode that's pretty much auto-EVERYTHING.

Something to think about. It's definitely a camera that's somewhere inbetween the more sophisticated (with a higher learning curve) FZ10 and the Casio.

Hope you get all this resolved, one way or the other!

=============

Chris
www.FZ1Club.com
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Old Jun 30, 2004, 11:30 PM   #36
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Klaas wrote:
Quote:
Well let's start with the outdoor shots:

The "overexposed" picture was taken in spot mode, probably metered on the dark clothes of the girl. When using spot mode you have to carefully watch the EVF and histogram untill you think the exposure is OK before you half press the shutter.

With the "underexposed" picture you should have used spot mode but this time you had your camera in matrix metering mode while shooting a shadow object against a bright sky.

Both are classic beginner mistakes and have nothing to do with your camera.

You may be better of selling your FZ10 and go back to a fully automatic point and shooter? (or read some books about photography starting with the MANUAL)

When I find the time I will take a look at your other examples.

Klaas Bloem
I agree that those two pictures are notvery good shots - I was just expermenting with different modes at that time. However even dark clothes looks overexposed and buildings on a second shot take about 70% of space so they should not be that dark.

There isno way I can look at the hystogram before taking every shot - most of the times there is simply no time for that. Also when you mentioned fully automatic P&S did you mean that FZ10 is not supposed to work in automatic modereliably at all?

Thanks!
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Old Jul 1, 2004, 12:27 AM   #37
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ET wrote:
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I agree that those two pictures are notvery good shots - I was just expermenting with different modes at that time. However even dark clothes looks overexposed and buildings on a second shot take about 70% of space so they should not be that dark.

There isno way I can look at the hystogram before taking every shot - most of the times there is simply no time for that. Also when you mentioned fully automatic P&S did you mean that FZ10 is not supposed to work in automatic modereliably at all?

Thanks!

ET, I think the overexposed shot was taken against the sun, you can clearly see there is lots of lens glare in that shot which makes the dark clothes look overexposed. I agree on the second shot but where did you focus on in that scene? Did you focus higher on the building and recompose the shot after that?

The FZ10 isn't (designed to be) the worlds best point and shooter for sure but does a reasonable job in automatic mode given nobody has messed up the advanced menu settings like ISO, (spot) metering, EV settings, white balance etc. Things most point and shoot cameras lack. But even a "perfect" point and shoot camera has no brains, as an example we can look at the overexposed flash shot with the woman in the car, the car is black, the surroundings are dark, only the womans skin is light. The camera does not know the difference between a black surface or a shadow, it just meters an average of the scene. Such a scene will fool every automatic camera. With the FZ10 you can compensate for this by using minus EV or in this case reducing the flash output.

About the indoor shots, try to focus on a part of the scene with detail and watch if you get a conformation (single beep, non flashing green light. If you want to be sure use manual focus. The nice thing about the EVF is "what you see is what you get" The outside shots seem to be in focus so the focus system is working fine I think.

If you have any doubt about your camera go to a camera store and try out another FZ10. I can assure you there is nothing wrong with the FZ10 as a product but maybe yours is having a problem. You won't find out untill you try another one!

Good luck, Klaas
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Old Jul 1, 2004, 6:10 AM   #38
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Klaas wrote:
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ET, I think the overexposed shot was taken against the sun, you can clearly see there is lots of lens glare in that shot which makes the dark clothes look overexposed. I agree on the second shot but where did you focus on in that scene? Did you focus higher on the building and recompose the shot after that?

The FZ10 isn't (designed to be) the worlds best point and shooter for sure but does a reasonable job in automatic mode given nobody has messed up the advanced menu settings like ISO, (spot) metering, EV settings, white balance etc. Things most point and shoot cameras lack. But even a "perfect" point and shoot camera has no brains, as an example we can look at the overexposed flash shot with the woman in the car, the car is black, the surroundings are dark, only the womans skin is light. The camera does not know the difference between a black surface or a shadow, it just meters an average of the scene. Such a scene will fool every automatic camera. With the FZ10 you can compensate for this by using minus EV or in this case reducing the flash output.

About the indoor shots, try to focus on a part of the scene with detail and watch if you get a conformation (single beep, non flashing green light. If you want to be sure use manual focus. The nice thing about the EVF is "what you see is what you get" The outside shots seem to be in focus so the focus system is working fine I think.

If you have any doubt about your camera go to a camera store and try out another FZ10. I can assure you there is nothing wrong with the FZ10 as a product but maybe yours is having a problem. You won't find out untill you try another one!

Good luck, Klaas
Thanks for your opinion.

Even my old p&s Casio had all the manual settings along with an automatic mode. Pretty much all p&s decent camerashave them too. Canon "A" and "S" series definitely considered to be perfect p&s however they havefull manual mode.

Picture of a woman in a car I actually tried to take with all different flash settings and even with an external flash. Contrast was definitely less with lowest flash output but then there was clearly not enough light and a picture was greyish and dull.

About an outdoor underexposed picture - there is a chance I recomposed it, I just wouldn't remember now. But the fact that I saved this file means other pictures were even worse.

I always take a shot when camera focus is locked with solid green light unless I use manual mode. But as I mentioned before manual focus is not easy to use because of very large amount of noise in helper window.

In many cases I won't be really concerned about over and underexposure but out-of-focus pictures just cannot be corrected and that what I keep getting...

I don't think camera store will allow me to borrow another FZ10 just to compare it with mine, so all I can do is to ask other people like you in the forum.

Thanks again!
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Old Jul 1, 2004, 8:35 AM   #39
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inthe underexposed_indoor_out_of_focus.jpg you have something in focus.. just might not be at the distance you really wanted.. cameras dont think.. that happens alot.ยด

most photos are human error here, i dont know much about digital becouse fz10 is my first digital, and before that i used a totally manual/mecanic camera that doesnt even have lightmeter(had to use a handheld one), so i cant compare the performance of fz10 automatic modes with others, but this shoots all seem human error to me. and maybe fz10 is not for that moments that you dont wanna bother and just wanna shoot.
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Old Jul 1, 2004, 11:42 AM   #40
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ET,

I'll comment on two of your photos and would think that any other point-and-shoot would have similar results.

Under_exposed_outdoor3 is definitely underexposed. It looks like an overcast day and you are standing among shadows of buildings. No camera will take an appropriately exposed shot at ISO 50 and 1/400 shutter speed. There just isn't enough light. It should have looked pretty dark on the LCD even before you took it. Also remember settings are preserved if you switch from A/S/M to auto (If you were on ISO 50 from before and switched to P mode, you'll still be on 50 unless you go through the menu and select auto for the ISO setting).

Dark_area_noise looks pretty good to me considering the circumstances. More less-than-ideal conditions. Overcast day, dark subjects, and a bunch of branches in the way. Spot metering may have done a better job of exposure of the barge in this case.

If you're still interested, I'd post some bright daylight shots. See what your camera can do in ideal conditions. That's the only way to see if it is working properly.

As for your camera shop, I'm sure they'd be willing to help you out. You could ask to go outside with one of them and take pictures of the same things with your camera and a new FZ-10. Customer service is typically the strong suit of a local shop because they want your repeat business.

It isn't a perfect camera, but there are a lot of FZ-10 lovers out there. If it was a piece of junk, there wouldn't be a bunch of us "defending" it. We can't all be wrong about it.
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