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Old Jul 21, 2004, 12:41 PM   #11
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this is the problem i face right now, all worldwide panasonic website say that fz10 is out of stock, so the only stock left over is what is in retailers stores that have them. Well guess what i really like the FZ line of camera's but why should i pay the same price for the now old model FZ10 and FZ15, i am not interested in the FZ20 for various reason's.

both these camera's are 500US dollars, the retailers won't drop the price yet because fz15 is not being shipped, so for 1 to maybe 2 month i have to pay the same price as fz15 MSRP, have you looked at the car industry lately, when new models come out in september the old stock is reduce in price to sell them, i think panasonic needs to contact there intire dealer network and do what it takes to move the remaining stock at better prices(give credit back, to able to discount the outstanding stock), since it seems to me panasonic is not making the fz10 anymore, why should they with the fz15....correct me if i am wrong, but is panasonic going to replenish there own stock of fz10, and if so the MSRP should be below the FZ15 right...it's what is done in the car market....check your commercials tonight and you will see hundreds of days of summer sale on all remaining 2004 car models...

i hope by monday panasonic website will have a better shipping time of fz15 so i can make a better judgement on what i should do, really buy a camera at full price when it being replaced, i think not.....

why can panasonic not have shipments ready for such annoucements, it cause alll this garbage that i am talking about

belz
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Old Jul 21, 2004, 5:57 PM   #12
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I'll think up some technical questions later . But first off.....

Will the FZ15 be available world-wide, specifically in the UK?

Panasonic's Japanese site explicitly states that the FZ15 is USA only. Is this an erroneous or misleading statement? Or if it's true,why?

Also, does the "late summer" release date include the UK, given that the FZ10 seemed to arrive in the UK many months after it's release in the USA. Indeed, it's still being advertised as anewly released camera here.

Any word on recommended retail price for the UK market?
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Old Jul 21, 2004, 6:47 PM   #13
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aldon wrote:
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I'll think up some technical questions later . But first off.....

Will the FZ15 be available world-wide, specifically in the UK?

Panasonic's Japanese site explicitly states that the FZ15 is USA only. Is this an erroneous or misleading statement? Or if it's true,why?

Also, does the "late summer" release date include the UK, given that the FZ10 seemed to arrive in the UK many months after it's release in the USA. Indeed, it's still being advertised as anewly released camera here.

Any word on recommended retail price for the UK market?

Panasonic UK confirmed the following in an email to me

"we are looking forward to the FZ20 becoming available in the
UK in September. The FZ15 will not be sold in the UK and finally there are
no plans to discontinue the FZ10 at present."
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Old Jul 22, 2004, 3:13 AM   #14
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oh well...

i'm not interested in buying the FZ10 when it lacks some basic things like focus assist lamp,doubt i'll be buying the fz20 as it's too expensive and i don't need 5 mega- pixels

fz15 would have been perfect

too bad....i'll stick with my oly
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Old Jul 22, 2004, 9:52 AM   #15
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what will the lack of a hot shoe (external flash) do to this camera FZ15 in comparisen to fz10 that has hot shoe.

to clarify, since fz15 does not have hot shoe, what will it's limitation be compared to the FZ10 that has an external flash capability



thanks

belz
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Old Jul 22, 2004, 10:29 AM   #16
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Although my FZ10 is only 2 weeks old....think i gonna buy the FZ20...because it has a cable remote.....and i really like that....and specially if the price is like Bob said.

Two Panasonics are still cheaper then one of the DSL's, or 6 if you want a 400mm 2.8


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Old Jul 22, 2004, 10:36 AM   #17
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There seem to be some very basic misunderstandings here and in other recent posts.

Almost all audio/visual electronic devices have an inherent signal to noise ratio and therefore dynamic range. There are usually constraints imposed by physics on what any given design of device can achieve in this respect. Certain types of microphones will always hiss more than others. Cassettes hiss more than CDs. Analog TV and video is more noisy than digital.

The design of the FZ series of camera is based around a lens whose optical characteristics presuppose a small CCD. Small CCDs are inherently noisy for reasons embedded in the laws of physics. FZ series cameras will always have a tendency towards noisiness (the new versions attempt to conceal this with noise-reduction processing, but there is bound to be a quality trade-off) and this will have a limited dynamic range, leading in high-contrast situations either to burned out highlights or noisy shadows. The lack of dynamic range can also be seen in limited detail in photos including trees in the distance and the like. The new Venus 2 'engine' is partly required in order to post-process the image to minimise these problems while retaining a fast throughput of data.

No amount of fiddling with exposure characteristics can adequately compensate for this consequence of the basic design. Reduced compression or even RAW output will merely highlight the problem, just as you'd not solve the problems of a cheap mic by connecting it to an expensive preamp - you'd merely make its deficiences more obvious. The requests here for these features to be added to the FZ10 through firmware within its existing physical and electronic design are seriously misguided.

The 'problem' of darkening of the viewfinder just before exposure is similarly inherent in the shutter and aperture design (also dictated by the lens design) and cannot be fixed by firmware. It's not dissimilar to what you might see in a non-digital SLR under the same conditions.

Many of the comments here simply do not take into account the nature and design objectives of the device. The feature that most users will be purchasing it for - the stabilised lens with its prodigious zoom range - necessitates compromises in some other aspects of its performance. If we have to compare cameras to cars, you might think in terms of a Porshe - you don't buy a car like that and then complain that it uses more petrol than your previous small family car, or that you can't carry as much in the way of bricks and cement as you could with a 1 tonne truck. You buy it for speed and power, and other considerations have to be set aside.

I could continue to explain the commercial considerations dictating Panasonic's marketing and development policies but I'll simply venture the opinion that if many of the dreams expressed in recent posts were fulfilled, Panasonic would be out of the market in no time at all. I think a little more realism is called for. Not to mention a sainthood for the patient and long-suffering 'Panasonic Bob'. His position within the company doubless precludes him from spelling out some of the above matters, which could be seen as unhelpful in marketing these cameras, but my connection with the company is sufficiently distant that I'm not constrained in the same way.

Hopefully these matters can now be laid to rest and more time can be spent on more productive discussions.

- Rosanna
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Old Jul 22, 2004, 11:15 AM   #18
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rosanna wrote:
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There seem to be some very basic misunderstandings here and in other recent posts.

I agree !

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The 'problem' of darkening of the viewfinder just before exposure is similarly inherent in the shutter and aperture design (also dictated by the lens design) and cannot be fixed by firmware. It's not dissimilar to what you might see in a non-digital SLR under the same conditions.
I agree with you for the exposure, as the shuters closes in high f-stops in full manual mode, resulting in less light comming in... That, in fact is a feature I appreciate because it reduces the shutter lag.

But, I don't see how the shutter speed could mechanicaly affect what we see in the EVF. Correct me if I'm wrong but to me, it HAS to be simulated electronicaly (vwia software). This simulation is indeed useful in some cases, but on some occasions it's more a hassle that anything else. And of course in case of using a flash, it's totally irelevant and makes framing close to impossible under some particular but yet totally NORMAL conditions.

And to be clear, not being able to use this (otherwise great)cam at its best, in full manual mode,under NORMAL conditions, because ofthe software, ISwhat I call a BUG. There is no way anybody can discuss that on good faith.

What I would like is that BUG to be taken into account, and Panasonic (not Panasonic Bob) to acknowledge that they misconcieve that feature, and to correct it by making that shutter speed simulation optional.

At one time I did hope for an improved firmware whith new features, but I don't anymore. I understand the new venus engine is necessary, and I might even go for an FZ20 to get those new featuresdepending on the reviews and tests that will certainly be out in the near future (especially noise issues).

But meanwhile, right now I'm only asking for a plain and simple BUG FIX, and again that one described above,alone, qualifies the FZ10 for a sotware FIX.


Regards,

David
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Old Jul 22, 2004, 11:33 AM   #19
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ddsm wrote:
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But, I don't see how the shutter speed could mechanicaly affect what we see in the EVF. Correct me if I'm wrong but to me, it HAS to be simulated electronicaly (vwia software).
I agree with David. Isnt the evf independent of the shutter and/or aperature setting and simply an electronic representation of those settings? If so, that representation can be bypassed/disabled leaving the evf bright if the user selects to have it that way. Sounds like a fairly easy fix. Will the fz15/20 have that option?

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Old Jul 22, 2004, 12:30 PM   #20
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rosanna wrote:
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I could continue to explain the commercial considerations dictating Panasonic's marketing and development policies but I'll simply venture the opinion that if many of the dreams expressed in recent posts were fulfilled, Panasonic would be out of the market in no time at all.
Good point. Remember those companies that used to be strong, but disappeared because they provided firmware updates? Anyone remember Canon, Nokia, et. al.? Foolish companies went "out of the market in no time at all" because they wasted time supporting their existing products.

I'm not being mean; please don't infer that. I'm just pointing out that a company supporting existing products in no way leads to obsolescence.
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