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Old Jul 24, 2004, 12:41 AM   #31
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If I'm a FZ10 abuser, you must be an eXTENsive panasonic supporting GUY.
Please quote anything I said about the negative thing about FZ10, if you have the leisure.
I'm only here to point out what's wrong with Panasonic's policy on not issuing a firmware.
And why can't I write negative things about Panasonic? Do everybody has to act like you? To defend Panasonic?
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 1:00 AM   #32
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fz_10user wrote:
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If I'm a FZ10 abuser, you must be an eXTENsive panasonic supporting GUY.
Come on you can do better than that...

You are free to say anything you want in these forums (according to the rules) but judging from most of your posts they are primarily negative.. and you've only been here 3 days.
I don't think anyone here is really defending Panasonic (besides P. Bob). I just think people are getting more tired of the rant.
Point understood. Now let's move on.
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 1:17 AM   #33
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What do you expect? Something dirty? Huh?
Ok, let's move on, you continue to be your faithful defender and I will try to abuser my FZ10 so I can figure out how to creat a firmware fix.
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 1:45 AM   #34
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agreed
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 2:26 AM   #35
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OK. Based off that theory...From now on you will have a very limited supply of electronics in your life. In truth, many features that are put into electronics are meant to smoothout edges from previous models. That is the nature of the business. Saying a company that doesn't upgrade those units in the interim is like saying a bird doesn't fly well because it can make the trip from Canada to Florida without landing.

There are somethings that people here are calling malfunctions (the dark LCD in manual) because they take away from the smootheness of the operation of the camera. But operability has nothing to do with smoothness. And sometimes I admit, in this industry there can be occasional bouts of short sitedness when a feature is initially designed that does not make it is usable or smooth as some would like. BUT, if it does what the designer of the feature intended it to do. It is operable. It is working. And there is no flaw/defect. In this case, that feature was meant to desmonstrate the generalized (not always specific) effect of making certain adjustments on the potential picture. Thats what it does. It does it according to design. And therefor like it or not, no flaw, and no reason for a firmware upgrade. No amount of griping is going to make that change. The fact is..if the FZ20 has an upgrade for that...Then consider yourself lucky that ultimately, that is how the feature you want is available. Life is that way some times. You get what you want, just not how you want it. I know this. I will be keeping a close eye on the FZ20, and if my side business starts to become lucrative, then I will decide whether I want it based off of what I find out about it.

FZFUN
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 2:46 AM   #36
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Fz_10 user,

Many of my comments have defended this camera. Sometimes as a left handed compliment. But the fact of the matter is, as far as industry is concerned, I have a little inside insight. The policies that people are complaining about is SOP for many electronics companies, and probably a few of the camera companies.

If there are some differences in how the industries work, the biggest contributor to that is that many Camera companies focus ALL of their attenion on cameras and their accessories. Its what they do, and its ALL they do.

Many Electronics companies manufacturer many many products. And the policies on how to handle warranty and out of warranty issues has to be well established and very intractible to keep their warranties fair and from damaging the overall health of their product line. Does this sometimes adversly affect consumers? Yes.. But sometimes those adverse affects swim the way of corporate too. No system is perfect. We do what we can to keep it as smooth as possible in a world where entropy is a natural effect.

Software/Firmware is much more costly and time consuming than most people realize. Its something that is easy to ask for, but the cost of doing is very prohibitive. Many companies do not even have a set process in place to do firmware or software upgrades! The request may seem reasonable to you. But coroporate entities are extremely efficient at calculating financial reasonability based off of total sales, number of people complaining, and whatever other factors get involved. In most cases, publicly they WILL deny absolutely that anything is wrong. However, engineering will then often work with some people on a case by case basis to quietly work toward getting itdone, if they think it is feasable at all. This has not happened in this case. That means that a)They didn't initiallyview it is a problem, b)There hasn't been a situation bad enoughto justify changing their mind, c)It may not be anywhere near as possible to do the firmware/software upgrade as everyone in here thinks. It amazes me how people seem to jump to this conclusion and act as if theyknow more about the subject ofwhat can and can't be done in firmware than the engineering team that designed it. It doesn't really make sense.



FZFUN:|
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 2:56 AM   #37
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As some people has VERY SHORT TERM MEMORY...
Let look back what Bob's said less than a year ago.
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...62&forum_id=23
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 3:01 AM   #38
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Out of all the cameras in the market at the moment comparing price & value for money, would the FZ10,15 & 20 be the top 3?

If thats the case the FZ10 is still darn good camera in its own right. It's only been beaten by it's own replacement (reviews are to confirm this yet)!


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Old Jul 24, 2004, 5:43 AM   #39
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fz_10user, this is a great point and proves that we have been fed a load of bulls--t on the whole firmware issue. To anyone who was looking to buy an fz10 and reading the post that you havereferred towould without a doubt haveled them to believethat the product they had bought would be supported with FIRMWARE updates!!Everyone should read the link on fz_10users post as itseems to be the total opposite of what bob is saying now!
We are accused of moaning and saying the fz10 is rubbish! Well i for one don't feel that this is the case at all. We are using this forum for what it was created for.....discussing our issues and trying to get them sorted out. If we cannot state our points then how are we supposed to get our problems addressed? If some of the people on this forum don't like it then get stuffed, we are not forcing you to read it, you can see by the postsheading what its about, so avoid it if you don't like it!!I have not made many posts on this forum but this is one subject that i feel strongly about and would like to share with others who clearly feel the same. The point here is about panasonics ignorant attitude to their customers. I have sent several emails to panasonic's customer services dept and i can assure you that it is crap!! Believe me if you get a reply then you are very lucky. In my opinion if you buy a companies product you should be able to rely on their customer support and that should go without saying! In the opinion of the majority of the people on this forum the darkening evf, and constant overexposure issues are faults which need fixes..... and that is where customer support and firmware upgrades come into play! This is the whole point that we are trying to make, getting the product that you paida lot of money for to work PROPERLY!!I don't think that is too much to ask now, do you?!!
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Old Jul 24, 2004, 7:00 AM   #40
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x10guy wrote:
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Just curious, ever since you joined this forum (3 whole days ago) have you written anything but negative about the FZ10 and Panasonic?
You madeyour point here X10guy... But you seem to imply that we are now arguing only because we realize that the our cam will soon stop to be Panasonic's leading edge... I don't aggree.

The reason why some of us are expressing our frustrations now is because it made sense to us that if Panasonic planned to release a firmware fix/upgrade for the current FZ serie, they would do so prior to the announcement of the new models, or what would have been even wiser, at the same time. That way, their message would have been : "we do listen to all of our custommers. Sohere is a new FZ20 for those of you who asked for new functionalities that required a new hardware (AF assist light, higher focusing speed, uncompressed format...). But yet, we do not forget our current users, and here's a firmware fix to take care of some functionnal flaws that most of you, our custommer base, reported as problematic."

Now that would have made sense wouldn't it ?

That's why, speaking for myself, I did not feel the need to speak out on this issue. My position was "wait and see". Meanwhile, I have been active on some other forums, and if you read DPreview, you might have come accross some of my posts, and have seen some of my pics. If you don't, I suggest you take look. I would add that 99% of my posts were reporting and showing out the positive sides of the FZ10, which indeed clearly outweight the negative ones in my point of view. Futhermore, I've been one of the most active supporter of the FZ10 on some french forums.

So I don't think that is a fair comment to disqualify us as "whiners" who get out of their holes only to flame Panasonic because we'll no longer have the biggest one...

Finally, I understand that most of you guys don't share my frustration about the EVF darkening in M mode due to some clear SOFTWARE simulation wich has been misconcieved. In fact, if you're not one of us who are having fun with macro photography, I can't think of any reason why you would want to use F8 and a fast shutter speed other than when the light is too bright... But those who do shoot macros, will most certainly understand my point here, and why I can get really upset when I miss some shots because I can't use the cam at it's full potential in some perfectly normal conditions... Clintwould probably agree...

So if you don't share my point of interests, you can just ignore my posts, and if you think I'm over doing it, you could have asked us why it was so important to me while beeing so irrelevant to you, instead of trying to discredit our requests. :roll:

I hope you'll understand our point now, and stop beeing defending Panasonic only because you do not come accross some issues as often as we do...

David
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