Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Panasonic / Leica

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 25, 2004, 11:33 PM   #61
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 175
Default

I fully agree with your statement that everything should work at its best. I think telephones should walk to your side when they are ringing, televisions should automatically receive every channel in existance, and cars should be able to handle any level of terrain and reinflate their tires when you get a flat. I think that when you spend thousands of dollars on a car, it should remind you when its time for standard maintenance on a part that will be expensive to repair otherwise without having to have the mechanic stick a sticker on the windshield. I think every house aught to tohave rubber in the wallsthat isresilent enough to keep the inside ofyour house dry in the middle of flashflooding and keep itfrom totally blowing away in a hurricane. Iwould want parking meters to call your cell or beep youwhen you are running out of time. I would like for theEVF issue on the camera to be fixed, after all of these things have occured successfully and nothing else more important needs to be done. :|

FZFUN
FZFUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25, 2004, 11:34 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
anomaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 144
Default

:-)

Edit: you snuck in another post! This message is in reply to your previous, not quite so flamboyant, posting, the one about people demanding an EVF darkening feature:

With flash enabled, remember.

When flash isn't enabled you could consider the software EVF darkening in manual mode a feature. Panasonic clearly does, but they've missed (ignored?) the flash enabled case.
anomaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25, 2004, 11:48 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
anomaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 144
Default

FZFUN wrote:
Quote:
I would like for theĀ*EVF issue on the camera to be fixed, after all of these things have occured successfully and nothing else more important needs to be done.
Stripped of the amusing wrapping, what you are saying is that you do not consider this problem to be important. Fair enough. But to some of us it may be quite important. Indeed, if your interests are in a niche area it may affect your use of the camera so much that it becomes enormously important.

I'm sure you know many people who never use manual modes and always use point and shoot. I certainly do. But that's no reason for those people to say "Manual mode isn't important so it doesn't have to work correctly. Why are you lot always yelling about bugs when I don't see them?"

I can understand arguments like "It is not cost effective for Panasonic to do this for you" and "It's fixed in the FZ20" (assuming it is), but I don't understand the "I don't use the camera the way you do so you are wrong" argument.
anomaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25, 2004, 11:52 PM   #64
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 34
Default

I'm glad to have someone like ddsm here who could describe the problem so clearly.
It's not right for some people to say something like "Panasonic has no competitors/Your FZ10 is so cheap, so just live with the bugs!". Firstly, competitors are there already and more are coming. Secondly, not everyone has a big deep pocket and consider $500 as nothing.
fz_10user is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2004, 4:09 AM   #65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 124
Default

Having just bought this weekend a powerful external flash - so I could use higher shutter speeds and still get enough light - I now understand the problem first hand. If I try to use a higher shutter speed in manual mode, then the evf dims, reducing the ability to compose a picture.

There's no way this could be described as a feature.

Like many SLRs, stopping down the aperture to see what the final image is going to look like (e.g. to evaluate DOF) should be an option, not a default.
lawrencew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2004, 4:34 AM   #66
Member
 
StormyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 57
Default

fz_10user wrote:
Quote:
I'm glad to have someone like ddsm here who could describe the problem so clearly.
It's not right for some people to say something like "Panasonic has no competitors/Your FZ10 is so cheap, so just live with the bugs!". Firstly, competitors are there already and more are coming. Secondly, not everyone has a big deep pocket and consider $500 as nothing.
If your refering to one of my posts,fz_10user, my point is, Panasonic can run out of stock because these cameras sell so well. In Panasonics eyes, these issues aren't going to effect sales of either the FZ10 or the FZ15/FZ20. Until another company comes up with a camera with feature/price similar to these cameras there just going to keep on making new cameras, forgetting about their previous ones.

Seriously, what competes against the FZ10?

There might be moreif Panasonic didn't have that lens!
StormyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2004, 10:05 AM   #67
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 124
Default

StormyKnight wrote:
Quote:
Seriously, what competes against the FZ10?

There might be moreif Panasonic didn't have that lens!
The lens is just one attribute of the camera. Clearly it is a big + point in the FZ favour.

However, lots of other cameras compete against the FZ on the basis of other features. All otherthings being equal the FZ's lens might seal the deal. BUT, all things are not equal.

For example, I was very close to going Minolta A1 instead of the FZ10 because it has lots of features the FZ doesn't - these were important to me too.

In the end the thing that made me go for the FZ10 was the lower price, not the longer zoom range.

And in all honesty there are days when I wish I had bought the A1 instead when I come across a need for an A1 feature that isn't on the FZ10 - for example yesterday I really could have done with a tiltable viewfinder as I had to use the FZ10 overhead and was shooting blind - every other shot was wasted because it cropped something out of the picture. Instead I had to use a wide angle shot to make sure I got everything in - so that long zoom was a total waste of time for those shots

Now I can add availability of firmware to my list of why other cameras might be better than the FZ

Frankly the FZ10 is a good camera with a great long zoom lens. It isn't a great camera, and take away that lens and I wouldn't have given it a 2nd look.
lawrencew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2004, 10:21 AM   #68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 21
Default

FZFUN wrote:
Quote:
I can see it now. In a year or two, Panasonic will give into the software demand for the EVF darkening...And then their number one tech support call will become.."I can't tell how my pictures will come out because this @#[email protected]%#%~ camera always maintains the same lighting on the display!"



FZFUN

If you are proficient enough to venture into manual mode then EVF lighting changes in the preview is redundant in most cases, and detrimental as well. You already have an exposure scale that shows the amount of under/overexposure and a real-time histogram that shows blownout highlights or blocked up shadows. In addition you can have instant preview on so that you can see the photo right after you take it and retake it if necessary. I don't see why anyone would complain - after all, a fix would presumablygive userstheoption to turn this "feature" on and off from the menu. I should think that would not be too difficult and not a lot to ask. I think having it as an option should satisfy everybody.
Clint751 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2004, 12:54 PM   #69
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3
Default

Bob:



A couple of responses to your message.

You are right Panasonic must care a little for you to be here.

By your defination ..Several posters have identified FLAWS that can be repaired with firmware....WHEN CAN WE EXPECT THOSE CHANGES.

As to the number of responses suggesting changes to the FZ10 ...Once a suggestion has been made, many of us don't want to keep repeating it over and over again. Probably the reason there was only 100 suggestions responders.

I love the changes you did make to the FZ20...and will probably buy one to replace my FZ10....The only thing that will hold me back is will my camera be outdated again in a couple of months by the FZ30 with it's warts left in place instead of corrected..This whole Firmware issue does speak to the quality of a company and it's customer service and does carry over the that companies other products.

Just some food for thought.




michael_mattox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 27, 2004, 1:50 AM   #70
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 175
Default

If you check out my site http://mainfragger.smugmug.com(Shock Therapy 2.0 albums have adult content in them), you will see that I shoot in clubs all the time. I use full manual at F5.6 or higher, and an external flash with a handle. I can't see a damn thing on the screen. Yet I have hundreds, even thousandsof photos that came out well enough. In my case, point and shoot is just a little more literal. If you really want to know the truth, you can turn the LCDor EVF altogether, just point the darn camera and shoot. I do it all the time, it works great! Is it perfect? No...Zooming can takepractice. But it can bedone, and if you do it oftenenough, it becomes second nature. Thinkof it like archery. Most people think its difficult to shoot blind folded. But if you get use to holding the bow a certain way every time, its not all that hard. Its just a matter of discipline. And I always thought photography was all about discipline.

My point wasn't so much as to say that it isn't important.. My point was to say that there areMILLIONS of examples of technology that don't work as smoothly as the enduser would like them to. And people complain about it, but never really go so far as to see that technology is broke. I've done technical support on no less than 9 different types of products across three different manufacturers over 11 years. I've even seen some of these issue discussed for either other digital cameras or in some cases even on film cameras. But this is the first time I have actually seen people get this gung ho about insisting a feature that they don't consider to be smooth, is a defect. And rather adamantly.

FZFUN
FZFUN is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:24 AM.