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Old Jul 28, 2004, 11:45 AM   #1
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As my user name implies, I am a rookie in the photography world. I bought the FZ10 after waiting years for 4mp and higher cameras to come out with a good lens. I am by no means a photographer, just a dad with lots of kids and a need to shoot lots of pictures without 4 x 6's layin around all over the place.

I bought the FZ10 about 4 months ago and absolutely love it for outdoor sports photography. I learned how to use ASM mode from a pro this past weekend and it really improved my pictures. Iam diligently trying to learn all I can and was very disappointed to read the LCD darkening problem yesterday.I went home last night and played around with the settings and noticed the problem. But, I also noticedif you put the flash up, the LCD brightens up. I took someshots composing with the flash up and then shooting with it down in Aperature priority mode. They did not come out very good at all, but I though it was interesting how the LCD brighten with the flash up.

:idea:Would this work for full manual mode? Set aperature and shutter speed, put flash up (does the LCD brighten?), compose shot, put flash down and shoot? I do not remember if I tried this, but there is always a work around in the computer world, why not in the camera world?

Please pardon the lack of photographic knowledge.
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Old Jul 30, 2004, 7:01 PM   #2
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The main problem is if that is the work around , that only works for set shots, not for kids running around the room. Plus if you're using an external flash it won't work as described because you can't pop the flash up when the flash is attached. Nice try though. It's good to see someone trying to work around a flaw that would be easier fixed with upgraded firmware.
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Old Jul 31, 2004, 2:59 PM   #3
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You're complaining about the camera showing you what the picture will look like? Isn't that the point of the EVF?
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Old Jul 31, 2004, 10:24 PM   #4
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No, we're complaining because the camera is mistaken in what it thinks the camera will look like, and that mistake prevents us from taking certain shots - shots which are indeed doable.

I have a Sunpak 383 external flash (I think we can all agree the internal flash is, well, less than sufficient). The other night, even in a decently lit room (low, but decent enough to see), the EVF went black on me - I was in manual mode.

So, I had to switch modes just so I could frame the shot, and so the camera could focus. Clearly, the picture was doable with my flash (it came out fine), yet the FZ10 "thinks" the shot is going to be black, even though the camera is completely aware of the external flash (we know it's aware, because the "external flash" menu becomes available).

There is a work around, but not if you're ina hurry. You can switch to manual mode and program or aperture mode; frame the shot and focus, locking the focus; switch back to manual and take the shot. However, if you have that kind of time, you likely didn't need full manual mode in the first place.

The point is, though, this workaround proves that the shot is doable, and that the camera is incorrect in darkening the evf.


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Old Aug 1, 2004, 1:30 AM   #5
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Cageyman, can you please explain why in a normal room situation, full auto couldn't be used with the flash & give accepatable results? Is it the depth of field that is the problem or noise or something else?
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Old Aug 1, 2004, 1:48 AM   #6
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First of all, realize I've been at this for about two months now. Most of you have more knowledge of photography in your little finger than I have in my whole brain (whatever that means :-)).

Seriously, you have to take most of what I say with a grain of salt, unless I preface it by saying, "I am absolutely right on this point."

In this particular case, the room was lit by light streaming in from another room - it was enough to see and take a shot with the flash, but without the flash the pic was pretty much black.

I was playing around taking pics of my sons - took in P mode and aperture mode (I don't know why - I just did :shock, but thought I'd try a fast shutter speed with an aperture of 4 or 5.6, since the boys were apart and acting goofy (2.8 might be just fine, I was just experimenting). But I couldn't go into manual mode.

[now that I think of it, the full auto results may have been great, I was too busy experimenting]

Bottom line - although I do dislike how hard it is to focus in low light (more on that in a sec), for me, this evf feature doesn't crop up that much for me (almost never). I still agree that it's wrong, it's just not as important to me as it is to others. I probably sound schizo, because I'm defending what they're saying, even though it's not a show stopper for me. For me, the full auto or A mode are fine almost all the time.

Poor low-light focusing, though, that's a problem (well, granted, much of the problem might be me, too). We were at an event the other night, indoors, and there was a replica of the Atlas rocket (pretty darn tall). It took me forever to get a locked focus, even though I hunted for vertical edges. That's rare, but that was frustrating.


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Old Aug 1, 2004, 2:01 AM   #7
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I'm used to an SLR Film camera, with a pretty hefty flash, so I have a pretty high aperture set, giving a good depth of field to cover the fact that you can't always focus in dark rooms simply becasue you can see that well. (No auto focus on my camera anyway).

As long as on auto you can see the subject, then perhaps the focus assist on the FZ-20 may be sufficent for what I need.

I just like to know from someone, what are the limitations of auto or priority for these type of photos? Inside, birthday party type shots.

If anyone has some samples, that also would be much appreciated.
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Old Aug 1, 2004, 4:04 AM   #8
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StormyKnight wrote:
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Cageyman, can you please explain why in a normal room situation, full auto couldn't be used with the flash & give accepatable results? Is it the depth of field that is the problem or noise or something else?

Because with an external flash you have to set the appropriate aperture on the FZ10 to match that set on the flash.

The FZ10 has no TTL Flash metering (another shortcoming), so you have to set the aperture manually (A or M mode)

If you just use the Flash Preset setting on the FZ10, then the likelihood is that with a big external flash (and most people will have gone for a powerful one) then the aperture is likely to be too big, and hence pictures are overexposed.

With my powerful flash I have to set F8 to a correctly exposed image.
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Old Aug 1, 2004, 4:45 AM   #9
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lawrencew wrote:
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Because with an external flash you have to set the appropriate aperture on the FZ10 to match that set on the flash.

So, I see, the EVF usesthis setting, to show what would be taken if the camera had no flash at all. I see the silliness of the problem.

Could you,compensate for the overexposure, to get it sort of back into a more ideal range or is it too far out?
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Old Aug 1, 2004, 6:13 AM   #10
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no, because you don't want to change the exposure - else it will be overexposed.

You will have the right exposure settings, and the evf is "true" in that it is showing the image for those settings, it just is totally ignoring that you are using an external flash - EVEN THOUGHT IT KNOWS you have one connected.

I just can't see how Panasonic would consider this a feature. Fine if you are not using a flash - but totally pointless if you are.
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