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Old Aug 21, 2004, 3:43 AM   #11
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spectator wrote:
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i don't think that the weight is an issue. DSLRs are big and heavy plus you put external flash on them but nobody complains about the weights.

Weight is one of the main reasons why I (and many others) have chosen the FZ10 over a DSLR.....
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 4:08 AM   #12
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spectator wrote:
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just to share my experience with AA batteries....

* 4 pieces 2300mAh Sanyo AA batteries on Olympus C750 = 180++ 2.0MP pictures taken with red-eye flashON all the time, with flash ON all the time, with LCD ON all the time and without turning OFF the power between shots. is that bad for AA battery which cost only less than USD 3.0 per piece and can be recharged for about a thousand times? Btw, Panasonic 3000mAh AA batteries can last only up to around 120+ shots.
The FZ10 has IS (gyroscopes always run) and a heavier lens system (zooming) than your C750. I also own an Oly C-2100 which has a far higher power consumption than your C750 due to those facts. A camerapowered by AA batteries has to be designed for 6V at least (mostly 7,2V) because AA Alkaline cells are 1.5V. As NIMH batteries are only 1.2V they are never fully drained by a digicam.
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 4:42 AM   #13
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Klaas wrote:
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spectator wrote:
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i don't think that the weight is an issue. DSLRs are big and heavy plus you put external flash on them but nobody complains about the weights.

Weight is one of the main reasons why I (and many others) have chosen the FZ10 over a DSLR.....

had Panasonic designed the FZ10/20 with AA batteries, would you still buy it? how aboutthe size of FZ10/20 compared to competition? you don't care about the size but you care about the weight? :|
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 7:37 AM   #14
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Panasonic wrote:
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Using 4 "aa" cells will only give you 4.8v Given the fact that power consumption is a constant, using a higher voltage, such as 7.2, will extend the battery life.
uuuuh, very wrong.
Lets calc:
FZ10 battery pack makes 7.2V * 680mAh = 4,9Wh
4 AA Cells make: 4 * 1.2V * 2500mAh (do 3000mAh really exist?) = 12Wh.
So 4 AA cells have more than twice the power of the FZ10 LiIon. It would be 3-times the power with those 3000mAh cells.
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 8:20 AM   #15
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phibes wrote:
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do 3000mAh really exist?) = 12Wh.
yes, i have 4 pieces of them. i bought them in bangkok, thailand last april. i could have bought more of them when i went there again last month. but knowing its performance versus that of sanyo 2300mah, idecided not to buy again. btw, there are also Panasonic NiMH AA batteries that are in 2400mah, 2600mah, and 2800mah capacities.
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 8:44 AM   #16
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I think there's too much "apples and oranges" going on here. You're comparing two very different cameras with two very different types of batteries and you're even further dividing up the NiMH battery choice into different namebrands. It's like arguing fuel efficiency between gas powered and hybrid automobiles. There's just no comparison.

I don't think you're going to get better performance out of the FZ10 using NiMH batteries. I also don't personally care to wait while my NiMH charger discharges the NiMH batteries so I can top them off. That means that it will take more time just to top them off than it would for me to top off the OEM battery (which doesn't require discharge first).

A lot of posts keep mentioning the "emergency" benefits of AA's, but how realistic is that? Chances are that if you're somewhere without access to an AC plug or 12V car plug that you're also somewhere that it won't be convenient to find and buy AA alkaline batteries, which in the end are going to provide absolutely miserable performance compared to the OEM battery or even NiMH AAs. All of this is irrelevant with just a little bit of planning ahead (approximately 90 minutes for a full charge).
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 1:24 PM   #17
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spectator wrote:
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had Panasonic designed the FZ10/20 with AA batteries, would you still buy it? how aboutthe size of FZ10/20 compared to competition? you don't care about the size but you care about the weight? :|

If the FZ10 had AA batteries I would have seriously reconsidered buying it.

You list some advantages of AA - like being non-proprietary - but conveniently forget afvantages of L-ion - like not loosing their charge whilst stored.

I was fed up of finding flat batteries every time I picked up my previous camera, and having to keep some batteries on permanent trickle charge (only to find the rest of the family taking them for their own use and not putting more on charge).

With the FZ10 the Lion battery provides simply superb performance. I am more than happy with it.

You can keep your AA batteries - don't tell me how cheap or powerful they are - I dont care
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Old Aug 22, 2004, 5:33 PM   #18
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I also don't personally care to wait while my NiMH charger discharges the NiMH batteries so I can top them off.
That means that it will take more time just to top them off than it would for me to top off the OEM battery (which doesn't require discharge first).
NiMH batteries don't have any effective memory. It is suggested you discharge them about once every 25 charges, but it doesn't change the capacity much even then. If you completely discharge NiMH batteries every time you are decreasing their life. NiCad batteries have to be discharged or they develop a memory.

A D7i was my first digital camera and it came with NiMH AA batteries. They are somewhat of a nuisance if it isn't your only camera. They lose about 5% of their charge daily compared to about 2%/month for lithium. You have to keep a set in the charger and install them before you use the camera if it has been sitting for any period of time.

My other cameras have lithium, which I much prefer. Some folks here recommended the Eagle FZ10 spare for $20 and it has worked as well as the original. They had a spare for my Oly C50 on sale for $10, which is about the price of a set of NiMH. You can have a spare always with the camera without having to cycle them through the charger when not in use. They are much lighter and more compact for their power.

The FZ10 is an exception though. It was designed on the cheap – since Oly had discontinued the stabilized UZI I guess they weren't sure there was a market. Panasonic Bob said the reason the flash is so weak is that there would be too much battery drain with a stronger flash. They just took the battery from the FZ1 instead of designing a competent battery. The FZ10 would have been a better camera with NiMH and a decent flash. The flash they put on the camera is next to useless. And the battery has less power than the lithium battery in my little pocket camera. What they really needed to do was to develop a lithium battery for the camera. But NiMH would have been better than the weak flash. 4 NiMH high capacity batteries provide a lot more juice than the little lithium in the FZ10. Much better would have been a more powerful lithium battery though.

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if you take a long trip or adventure in place where there's no electric power to recharge those li-ion batteries, NiMH AA is the most practical way to do it because it is cheap.
If you are planning to be a latter day Jeremiah Johnson go with lithium. They are small, light and will stay charged until the next time you find yourself passing through civilization. A $20 spare for a FZ10 will fill 512Mb along with the battery that comes with it, and it is very easy to pack and keeps the charge until you use it.

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Panasonic could have easily converted me and many thousands more out there to shift from other brands if FZ20 had already implemented the features i wished for. For the mean time (...while waitng for FZ90 or FZ100), I'll stick with my Olympus C750.
The FZ10 is almost a full f-stop faster at full zoom. Minolta's stabilization is no more effective and they are claiming 3 f-stops for it. That might be a little optimistic, but it is very conservative to say the FZ10 will get a sharp telephoto image in 1/8 the light of the Oly 750 (3 f-stops).
My daughter has an Oly 750 and I don't see that much difference between the EVFs. If you don't get your eye close enough the FZ10 EVF looks poor, and the stalk inhibits you a little. After I put an eyecup on mine it looks at least as good as my daughter's Oly.
If you are willing to carry a tripod so you don't have to spend $20 for a spare battery I find your value system a little strange. I have four sets of NiMH batteries and would still prefer they had designed a decent lithium for the camera. NiMH are more hassle than I like plus a set of 4 weighs the camera down too much. You are projecting that they would have sold more cameras had they made it heavier with NiMH and more hassle to keep charged. Your projection is based on your having a bunch of NiMH batteries and not being willing to spend a little extra on a spare lithium. I don't agree with your assessment of increased sales with NiMH.

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Old Aug 23, 2004, 7:07 AM   #19
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i won't argue with that AA versus lithiom battery if that lithiom battery used by FZ10/20 are 1400mah or higher. but with 680mah capacity in that big compartment?
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Old Aug 25, 2004, 3:23 PM   #20
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Re: size and weight. KM Z3 uses 4 AA's. Most of the weight difference is do to the smaller lens (less light same x12). If they were going to go with proprietary battery, could they at least use the one which as a disposable option. The problem with propritary batteries IMHO, is that you can only use them for their device. My Sony's aged out since I don't do that much video shooting and of course they are incompatible with Sony's digital cameras (they are for a video recorder).

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