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Old Aug 29, 2004, 4:40 AM   #1
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O.K., guys & gals - I'm still working on getting some comparison shots between my FZ10 and FZ20, but today I had the opportunity to shoot under some difficult conditions of lighting, etc., and I had my FZ20, Canon 10D and Canon 1DS along. There are a total of seven shots from the FZ20 in the links below as well as two shots from my Canon 1DS and one from my Canon 10D of same subjects.

I'm posting links to both the full sized images and 1024x whatever (the aspect ratio is different between the FZ20 and the dSLR's). I was actually very happy with the performance of the FZ20. Some of these shots were late evening (bull elk) and some were under harsh sunlight. Most were difficult autofocus shots for all cameras. The FZ20 performed right up there with the very expensive 1DS and the mid-range dSLR 10D as I think you will see.

I had nearly identical "hits and misses" in terms of autofocus with each camera. With the Canon cameras I was using "L" glass (100-400 L IS) and 70-200. All exif info is attached and you can tell by the file names which were taken with the FZ20 and the Canons.

I was very surprised at how well the FZ20 performed in terms of white balance, exposure, etc. Noise is just a tad higher than with the Canons, but not all that bad considering the low light levels. Noise reduction was set to "standard" for all shots and ISO was locked at 80. The first set of links are for 1024x768 (approx) reduced size images and the second set for the originals.

None of these are really "excellent" examples of what any of these cameras can do under "ideal" circmstances, but I really wanted to see how the FZ20 compared when the lighting and shooting conditions were much less than optimal. There are slight mis-focus situations with each - but what this shows is that it's certainly not always "easy" and that the FZ20 holds it's own under very trying conditions.

Later I'll get some good images which show the best of what the camera can do, but what I'm seeing impresses me for the cost of the camera it definitely holds its own.....

Lin

http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/1fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/2fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/210ds.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/3fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/4fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/5fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/51dss.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/6fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/7fz20s.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/71dss.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/1fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/2fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/210d.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/3fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/4fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/5fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/51ds.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/6fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/7fz20.jpg
http://www.lin-evans.org/fz20/71ds.jpg

Last edited by Lin Evans; Feb 1, 2015 at 2:53 PM.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 6:28 AM   #2
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It takes too long to load every single one of them.
But from the last two: 1Ds VS FZ20 you can see a VERY CLEAR DIFFERENCE. Our dear friend "Noise reduction pattern" is clearly seen in the FZ20 sample.
If you call this "as good as 1Ds" I would call it "as good as an oil painting".
Sorry, no offence. Just want to point out the reality.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 9:31 AM   #3
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fz_10user wrote:
Quote:
It takes too long to load every single one of them.
But from the last two: 1Ds VS FZ20 you can see a VERY CLEAR DIFFERENCE. Our dear friend "Noise reduction pattern" is clearly seen in the FZ20 sample.
If you call this "as good as 1Ds" I would call it "as good as an oil painting".
Sorry, no offence. Just want to point out the reality.
Lin never said the picture quality of the FZ20 was on par with the 1D mister negative. I think the FZ20 does a very good job compared to the bulky $$$$$ DSLR systems. I would like to see some shots taken with and without in-camera noise reduction, can you do that Lin? Thanks for sharing those shots with us!

Klaas Bloem
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 9:42 AM   #4
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I was just going to point that out, I love it when people quote things that arn't there. Fz_10user is just obviously trolling. I'm glad he/she likes his/her fz10 so much, they probably need to invest in a faster net connection instead.

Lin, thanks for taking the time to post the pics. It's good to see the comparison between the fz20 and some dslrs. Any more comparison would be greatly appreciated.



eal
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 8:52 PM   #5
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Just pointing out another thing: "klass" - another panasonic supporter does not have a FZ10 or FZ20. He just sit there imagining how gorgeous they are (well, he can see some samples but yes, that's all he could do).

I do appreciate the side-by-side comparison between by Lin but the result for FZ20 is not so favourable. That's the truth. Admit it, Klaas, Stop excusing the poor quality with low $$$$$.

The FZ20 is mostly a software upgrade of FZ10. They simply do all the CS make-up inside the camera for you, masking up the ugly noise and purple fringing (so now we have the oil painting capturing capability). Perhaps that's the main reason Panasonic did not dare to offer RAW.

And for eal, you'd better have an eye-sight test if you saw nothing negative on the samples. I did own a FZ10 but that's a past tense. I sold it due to the disappointment on Panasonic's after-sales policy.

Hey, I'm expecting once again for those tenacious panasonic supporter. Come on, guys.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 9:35 PM   #6
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To FZ_10user (what's your real name - so we can chat?),

All digital cameras have issues of one type or another. I have over 30 digital cameras and not a single one is without its faults including some which cost me over $20,000 U.S. dollars. What is "important" is whether the camera does or does not suit you as a photographer and whether it produces the type image you want to either print or display.

So far I've been pleased with the FZ20 as an iterative improvement over the FZ10 which is a very nice camera also.For me the test is not whether or not I can find evidence of noise reduction algorithms (I can) in the FZ20's images, it's whether it is an issue or a problem in prints (it's not).

It may or may not be the ideal camera for you or for others. That's a decision only thephotographer can make for himself. What I can do is give my "subjective" opinion based on what I see and provide images which are representative of the camera's production. At that point it's up to the individual to decide whether or not the camera suits their needs.

There have been a number of improvements. The viewfinder (EVF) has a larger and brighter view than the FZ10, the chromatic aberration at full zoom has been greatly improved and a number of other issues have been addressed.

Whenever more pixels are crowded onto a small sensor, noise levels will go up unless there is some pretty good firmware algorithm or sensor level filtering such as Canon has done with their CMOS sensor on the EOS-D20. In the case of consumer/prosumer level fixed lens digicams it's always limited by market pressures and costs. All longer zoom lenses, even the very expensive ones made for dSLR's and 35mm film bodies have issues with chromatic aberration. Panasonic has done a great job of ameliorating this issue which is a big time saver for those who have issue with full zoom image quality.

Without knowing the details of the firmware, it's only a guessing game as to the effect this may or may not have on other issues, but "normally," applying firmware correction for chromatic aberration has little or no effect on other aspects of image quality. You can try it for yourself with Picture Windows Pro 3.5 which I use on my FZ10 full zoom images. It greatly ameliorates the CA and has no adverse effect on other aspects of image quality.

Noise filtering is a different issue entirely. Even the worst offenders where noise is concerned can still produce better prints than a good film camera with low ASA fim, but we are so sensitive to these noise issues that we tend to get very excited when we see "grain" in our on-screen images. My Sony 8 megapixel DSC-F828 is one of the most frequently criticized models for noise levels, yet it produces beautiful prints at 16x20 which can't be differentiated from like size prints made of the same subjects with my 1DS or Kodak 16 megapixel Pro Back.

Perhaps the FZ20 isn't what you hoped it would be. If not, surely the day will come when a camera which suits your needs is manufactured. But, each year there are numerous new releases and in general they are better than the models which preceeded them. I really don't see the FZ20 as a step backward myself - but you are certainly welcome to that opinion.

Best regards,

Lin
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 11:18 PM   #7
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fz_10user wrote:
Quote:
Just pointing out another thing: "klass" - another panasonic supporter does not have a FZ10 or FZ20. He just sit there imagining how gorgeous they are (well, he can see some samples but yes, that's all he could do).
Well, maybe "klass" or Klaas is the owner of a FZ10 and not as frustrated as you are:

http://klaas-bloem.fotopic.net/

See for your self, don't forget to view the EXIF info if your internet connection can cope with it.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 11:34 PM   #8
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fz_10user wrote:
Quote:
And for eal, you'd better have an eye-sight test if you saw nothing negative on the samples. I did own a FZ10 but that's a past tense. I sold it due to the disappointment on Panasonic's after-sales policy.

Hey, I'm expecting once again for those tenacious panasonic supporter. Come on, guys.
I'll try to catch an eal tomorrow. in the mean time you can start thinking about your next camera, I hope it's not a Panasonic FZ....
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 2:14 AM   #9
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Just everyone ignore FZ-abuser's posts. If you look at his previous posts he basically has a chip on his shoulder and is really only is this forum to bash-Panasonic and then call everyone else a "Panasonic supporter."

He is just itchin' go at it with people here. He either has issues with anger or has nothing better to do with his time.
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Old Sep 1, 2004, 1:08 AM   #10
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Well I for one appreciate all the time and trouble Lin went to and think the fz20 performed well. I think the pictures (those I could download without waiting for my next birthday) looked great.



Suzan




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